Player Features and Ideas Discussion

on what hull is this hybride turret standing ?

Does it have as many turret points as the Drake has launchers?

Does this Hybride hull don't have any bonuses?

Doesn't it have a Drone bay of at least twice the size?

Oh wait a minute those hybrid Battle Cruiser hulls don't exsist.

In other words your calculation is that, a calculation that at first glance might looks like it explains something, but actualy dosn't show anything.

The Ferox has an Extra turret

The Brutix has also a 10% damage bonus and a twice drone bay and Banthwide

The Myrmydon has a turret less and 4 times the banthwide and 8 time the drone bay.

A hybride turret and launcher don't do the same base damage or have the same rate of fire or the same reload time for that matter.

Making Matari ships and faction quality crippled. "Versatility" does not mean having ships on the field that doing versatile things, or having the ability to do extra useful things after the same amount of training, it means cross-training ALL skills for the same amount of ships which are increasingly only half the ships to begin with.

You are now giving the drake the same dps as the cane with 60% more tank. Matari ships are popular but that doesnt make their stats better. Popularity around does not affect performance on field.

Cane: 6 turrets and 10% damage bonus Brutix: 10% damage bonus to 7 more damaging and tracking turrets+ uber tank boost TO ALREADY +TANK

Cane: 10% damage bonus 6 turrets Ferox: 10% damage bonus to 7 already more powerful turrets + 50% more tank

Harbinger: more damage more tank

Prophecy: uber tank

Drake: uber stupid tank and now same equal dps potential to a shield fitted cane fully modded for dps

Myrmidon: under damage uber tank

Cane: 15m/s bonus to help you escape other BC 50km range (only take you one hour to get out of range of a ship chasing you at that margin, what a +++!!!)

Cyclone gets a 35% donus to 35 seconds of reps + 1 low (which will not even match it to the dps of the drake) versus the drakes 30% tank + extra mids for more tank (and that crazy magic 15m/s which makes a noteable, if not noticeable difference?)

CROSS TRAIN FOREVER MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE TO GET SCREWED OVER IN THE END MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE TOO, YAY!! LESSER TANK, LESSER DPS, LESSER SENSORS, FORGET ABOUT CAPACITOR, YOU GOT .4 OF A SECOND BETTER 180 DEGREE FULL TURN AND 10% SPEED BONUS ON A PRACTICALLY STATIONARY SHIP, WHAT MORE YOU WANT? BALANCE THAT MEANS EQUALS? NO WAY MAN! Oh you wanted a cargo hold? We takin that too. Extra CPU? lollycopters. PG? forget it. Tracking? WHAT YOU WANT TRACKING FOR WHEN YOUR SHIP AINT WORTH FLYING!!? Oh wait... you can lock 10% faster than most, thats another like nearly half a second bonus you got on your longest lock time (drones) But you still have like 5mbit drone bandwidth bonus on the two worst drone carriers (those 60% extra tank mosters of course) Uber versatile if you are looking for nerfed quality but hey, whos counting.

Basically, on every stat the cane is not the worst its got like 1 or 2 ships worse except the 15m/s move speed, 10% lock time, and increasingly moderate dps. Even lock range the only ship worse is the other matari ship. Oh no wait, the sig radiius is also 10% i mean come on, the cane is so hard to land shots on.

Sometimes people say if you are already fit to cope with a particular kind of ship you encounter... yeah and lets pray to the ammar that is the kind of ship yuo encournter ad its not fit specially to encouter you as well.

Please, balance is something that weighs the same. When it does not, that is tipping the balance.

IF YOU WANT OTHER BOATS TO BE USED MAKE THEM MORE ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE MAKING MINE WORSE IN PRACTICALITY IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Otherwise do away with faction variance, and you won't get anything wrong, and you'll get no complaint from me.

I was dealing with the "the Drake lose its damage selection" problem, and I think I prove it wrong. Feel free to investigate deeper on whatever problem you can find.

As for the meaning of the numbers, they are indices of the damage you will get, close from percentages or applyed damage based on a reference value (100). That mean that if you do 100 damage with your weapon with no bonused on a target with no resists, you can see what fraction of this you will do on the Deimos with the considered weapons.

How about keeping factions specialtes in jamming, neuting, webbing and scramming etc.. but making a slight variaint on each factions current ships, like you did to make t2, that have bonuses and nerfs on stuff like speed and agility, tank and regen, gank and drone bays. This way each faction would have their specialty ewar, but *balancing* and *popularity nerfing* would be irrelevant because Caldari would have a kiting battlecruiser and Ammar would have a regen boat, variations on the hulls already existing sort of like the way ships were varied to give us tech 2 ships but just varied into other types of tech 1 ships this time. This would not only even up somethings, but could also add an element of surprise to a battle. Is that a 100k ehp hurricane fleet, or do they pump out 1k dps each? Is that a paper thin drake fleet? Are those harbingers short of cap for their missiles?

Too complicated maybe but there's something in it toward that big balance in the sky. In fact, I gotta wonder, why do differing factions have ewar bonuses that are unavailable to each other? People train them up anyway, don't we? But that's all too complicated. You'd wind up having about 10 paint jobs for each ship if there was a variant for each ewar bonus and speed and tank and wooah to much. Marketing and manufacturing would be over complicated. So it would be impractical. I mean what would you do? *Subsytems* for every ship? That would be total chaos and you'd end up with one faction not training the skills to fly another factions ships, while still making the same training time for the same skills and bonuses, with the same end result, without all the balancing problems, which would just be rude to other factions for not flying their ships. If anyone was ever rude to me in New Eden I would stick the most random subs ever on my ship and head straight for the Eve Gate to try to find my way back to Old Earth where everyone was nice to each other. In fact, I'm gon straight to Eve Gate right nao. I don't even want true balance do I? Surely not. Minmatar can't understand sensors and when it comes to target painting, the Gallente are just dumb, of course. Ammarians don't put shields on their ships and the Caldari don't know how armour works, do they? If my Hurricane could uber tank I think people would shoot at it, and if you got long range webbed by a Falcon, you'd be *stuck* looking at the "you are webbed by the falcon" icons trying to figure out what was wrong. If the Gallente only tended to fly Gallente ships they'd end up down in Serpentis doing drugs and Ammarians whose second favorite ship wasn't Minmatar would be insulting to their emperor. Only Pirate factions stick to the one faction, everyone knows that and nobody wants to fly a pirate faction ship. Maybe if you forced the pirate faction ships to use the *subsystems* they would get confused and we could all get this mining done more peaceably. We don't want surprises in battle because battle is blob only that you see coming or else you are just trying to avoid them, the only true way to play of course.

I believe the cane will still see use in niche roles but I also see it being more unforgiving compared to some of the other BC's when it comes to it's use. But the point of my post is to temper some of your points.

1. The cane's cap has been reduced sharply which will affect it's propulsion, point and defense, even if the weapons do not require cap just about everything else does.
2. T1 ammo does allow for some choices on which split damage type you wish to apply but this does not apply to T2 ammo and given the 10 second reload times it is not very practical to be switching ammo hoping you hit a resist hole large enough to be worth the lost time on target.
3. I will agree the tracking is a plus of the AC weapon system but it has nothing to do with the Cane hull persay And what if you are trying to use an arty cane then your statement becomes rather false.
4. Projection in to fall off means lower dps and requires that you keep at range, the cane is barely faster than some of it peers now and also is more sluggish than it used to be.
5. Your booster point does not really jive as that is dependent on what fit one is looking at, especially in the realm of shield vs armor. Which the Cane being a jack of trades and master of none as it is, could go either way.

But back to what I first said, I don't believe the cane changes will make them non existence, there will be those pilots that can use the cane to their advantage for what niche they wish to fill. But even as your statement implied it will be the good pilots that can make something happen while using it.

Given that, I feel it will take more effort to use a cane than say a drake or a harby properly as to wither or not that is a good thing is another matter. *shrugs*

It's a basic HAM Drake. Sod the nanofibres, this isn't a kiting fit and the benefit is small.

[Drake, HAM]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

How about a dumb idea for the Drake: +1 Launchers instead of -1, then yank the Kinetic bonus and replace it with something non-DPS like Missile Velocity or Passive Shield Recharge Time (feel free to laugh) or something. My only reason is that a Drake looks awesome with 8 Launchers and nothing more. Although admittedly it would make non-Kinetic damage types far more useful. Y'know, since that was supposed to be the gimmick for Missiles and whatnot.

Of course, you'd also sacrifice the Utility High for DPS, but then again you can technically already do that on Cyclone/Cane/Ferox. Depending on the Launcher, you're also nomming a considerable chunk of PWG, which also noms parts of your Tank or Utility depending on what you end up fitting.

Yeah 8 Slot Drake would be neat and go for these bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield Resistances per level
10% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate per level

Problem Solved, but i dont agree with you idea to swap the drake and ferox's tank

Armor tanked Caldari ships (y'know, Scorp/Blackbird), armor tanked Gallente T1 ships, armor tanked Minmatar T1 ships, armor tanked Amarr T1.

Thermal is bad against Caldari/Gallente T2 ships: you're limited to EM (Infrared/Radio/Scorch).

And there's a very good reason why almost nobody uses Infrared/Radio...

takes away from the utility high designed for gang links. that was why it went down to 6 launchers to begin with. also, having 8 highs means a mid or low slot has to come off somewhere.