Player Features and Ideas Discussion

althoug drake could always fit a gang link n the first place this is nothing new

Welcome to my, the hybrid turret user's, world. The ships I fly have always been screwed by this feature. I pretty much have to disengage whenever coming up against a T2 Caldari/Gallente hull. Sucks, doesn't it?

"Oh it does more damage with kinetic missiles now so everything's fine"

Ok seriously, **** these kinetic only damage bonuses on Caldari missile ships. Why can't the Drake be more in line with the Caracal and Raven? Why does it suddenly depart into a region where you can only use one type of missile on it with any seriousness? I mean, you have 6 unbonused launchers if you're not using kinetic damage. It's laughable. The Prophecy outdamages a Drake that isn't using kinetic missiles.

With my skills right now, and Scourge Rage HAMs (2x BCS II in lows) I get 535 missile DPS. What happens when I switch to Mjolnir Rage? 356 DPS. On a medium-close range weapon system. This is horrible. I'm pretty certain that at this point, if you're packing a kinetic hardener you will just completely shut down the Drake so hard that the Drake pilot might as well just eject and warp off to save themselves the trouble of having to wait for a hilariously one sided fight to end.

Also, person who proposed the "You don't get ALL the things anymore club" thing: you've got a competent Harbinger now, the Brutix with that new armor rep module looks utterly terrifying, and then... The Myrmidon. Just the Myrmidon. What has happened to these ships is excellent, but the fact that the Drake just keeps getting nerfed into being so niche that it's almost useless is not; that is the opposite of what the ship rebalancing effort should be about. Not to mention that it's fairly difficult to really overdo the tank on the Drake anymore unless you really want to cut into DPS. With HAMs, at least. If this turned into a generic missile damage bonus, maybe even just 7.5% per level, that'd be far better than this 10% kinetic only decision.

It would also be overpowered, which is why they're not doing it.

Not sure why people are hating on the Brutix so much, it's literally the most versatile solo armor tanking brawler i've seen only comparable to the awesomness that was the Legion boosted dual rep Hurricane ( which is now completely impossible to fit, thanks a lot Fozzie ). And that is without Legion boosts on the Brutix I might add, putting links on it makes it retardedly good.

I do get the point about Gallente having 2 BCs with the active armor bonus making them both too similar but don't touch the rep bonus on the Brutix rather screw around with the Myrmidon cause I don't fly that shitheap anyways, the reason being drones as your main dps is not good at all if you are soloing.

1 or 2 years ago when people were way more inclined to happily let your drones rip them a new one drone boats were good. Today is a different matter though, in any fight where you are up against 2 or more targets the applied damage from your drones will be nowhere near those awesome EFT numbers since your drones will spend half of the time going in and out of your dronebay as not to be destroyed in the first 30-60 secs of a fight. There are simply way less utter bads out there then in the olden days, sadly...

I would love to see the Myrmidon, and other drone boats aswell now that we are getting more of them, get a bigger boost to drone hitpoints and/or speed in order to reduce the amount of time they spend going in and out of your dronebay. This would make killing the drones of a drone boat more of a decision making than it is today. As it is now, unless the drone boat in question has a possibility to deagress and get away there is little reason not to shoot the drones since without them it's pretty much dead in the water.
Why not give the different types of drone boats different kinds of hitpoint bonuses to the drones. Maybe a armor resist bonus or armor/shield hitpoint bonus thus making it viable to have a remote armor/shield repairer in a utility high to repair your drones with during a fight. I mean who in their right mind wouldn't want the possibility of bait tanking your drones

Oh hey look! It's a suggestion that totally ignores the reason that the ship rebalancing initiative was taken in the first place!

You're an idiot; the reason any of this is happening is so that all races have adequate and competitive ships; not so that we can have even more 'Winmatar' happening here.

@Gypsio III: Can you give me reasons WHY it'd be overpowered? Don't just say "well it'd be OP so they're not doing that", give me your reasoning and perhaps I could, I don't know, alter my argument so that I could suggest a reasonable change instead of just accepting a stupid bonus that is more of a crippling than anything else, leading you to come to the conclusion of the idiot whom I quoted at the beginning of this post. Further, It'd be doing equal amounts of damage with any missile type, but focusing on volley damage rather than rate of fire, like the Cyclone, which keeps them distinct. And it'd still do slightly less damage with any damage type than it does now with this kinetic only bonus.

Also, your argument should not include "well you can build the Drake to be a huge fat EHP brick".

On the contrary. Rebalancing initiative doesn't mean making every ship useful in every situation, it means making every ship useful in at least one situation. Any player can skill up to fly any ship in game, so it would be redundant to make every ship a carbon copy of eachother. EvE is about making decisions that have consequences and living with those consequences. You want a brick battlecruiser? Then live with its kinetic damage, but you risk hitting something that has a very high resist to it. Alternately, you can pick a Cyclone, but risk that it won't have enough tank for whatever it faces. You can't have everything in one package, because then you risk making that the only ship everyone is flying (example: Tengu, Machariel) - exactly the opposite of what the rebalancing initiative is trying to do.





I didn't suggest minmatar. I suggested you may be looking at the wrong tool, because Drake isn't the only ship out there, nor should it be. All four races - including "winmatar" - should have viable ships and since every pilot can fly anything as per paragraph above, they shouldn't be carbon copies of eachother, they should be different tools for different jobs.

Personally, I prefered flying a PODLA Drake, nano based missile spewing lightly tanked ship. With added mass and a few other changes, that playstyle is hurt badly or even killed. That doesn't make the Drake a bad ship - it's still a monster brick and if I want one of those, it's definitely my first choice. However, if I'll pick it, I'll know that the price I'm paying is being limited to kinetic damage. I'll do this tradeoff willingly, because I'll want the tank, same as when I pick the Domination because of the tank, not the dps.

On the other hand, if I'll want a nano based missile spewing lightly tanked ship, I'll definitely grab a Cyclone - it's faster, more agile - but I'm sacrificing maximum kinetic damage potential and the ability to tank in order to move fast.

What does this mean? Provided I'm not shortsighted and don't limit myself to one race exclusively, I now have two viable ships to work with instead of one. And guess what - that's rebalancing working as intended.

Confirming that 356 DPS is very low and the pure drone myrmidon has never been able to kill anything with its inferior DPS (or a prophecy, if it matters).

Because 726 DPS with freely-selectable missile damage types is too much for a medium-weapon T1 brawler platform with full tackle and 80k EHP, overheating to 90k. You need to ensure that the Cyclone and, more importantly, the T1 cruisers have gamespace in which to exist - this is after all the entire point of tiericide. Tier 2 BCs need to be nerfed because they're effectively just top-tier cruisers. Let the Drake have that DPS only for kinetic and you create more significant choices about fits and ammo selection.

So, to finish with this kinetic moaning, let's have a loot at a Deimos (worst case scenario for a Drake) :
With DCU+2EANM+explosive hardener, resist are as follow : em75,05;ki91,89;ex74,73;th83,78
So, the Drake will apply 8,11% of its kinetic damage, which is (base 100 for damage) : 100*1,5*0,0811 = 12,165
Swap to explosive now : 100*0,2527 = 25,27

That looks like damage selection IMO, but see what a hybrid ship will do then. For this, I will look at blaster void ammo, because T2 hybrid ammo does the highest amount of thermal damage (50/50% ; null or javelin do a little more, but this will be easier to compute).
Same resist patern, and obviously same base damage, 100 which 50 thermal and 50 kinetic : 50*0,0811 + 50*0,1622 = 4,055 + 8,11 = 12,165
Even with 50% bonus, that is not 20 compared to the 25 a Drake get with explosive ammo and no bonus.

That is called damage selection : when the difference between applyed damage on one resistance of a ship is superior to your bonus, you benefit from it. And that will happen to the Drake. Hence, the Drake DO HAVE damage selection.

So, instead of whining about your precious Drake damage selection, you should feel sorry for those poor Amarr player with their lasers hitting EM on all these armor tank or T2 minmatar ship. Welcome to real EVE.