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Suspect flags in rookie systems
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Kimball Bergbau
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-02-10 16:52:24 UTC
IIRC, before retribution was released it was against the rules to can bait rookies in a rookie system.

With suspect flags as they are, I see in all gallente rookie systems people sitting on the undock in T1 frigates/cruisers (occasionally T2) with suspect flags. Just sat there. Is this considered noob baiting too (and thus an actual offense)?
Whitehound
#2 - 2013-02-10 16:55:56 UTC
What did he do besides blinking at you?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kimball Bergbau
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-02-10 17:00:53 UTC
To me, nothing personally. However I have seen occasional rookies engage these pilots. Moments later, they don't have a ship.
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-02-10 17:04:12 UTC
Kimball Bergbau wrote:
To me, nothing personally. However I have seen occasional rookies engage these pilots. Moments later, they don't have a ship.

So they only attacked and got shot down? There was no bait'n'switch tactic used?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-02-10 17:06:52 UTC
Go kill them.
Kimball Bergbau
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-10 17:11:26 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Kimball Bergbau wrote:
To me, nothing personally. However I have seen occasional rookies engage these pilots. Moments later, they don't have a ship.

So they only attacked and got shot down? There was no bait'n'switch tactic used?


Bait and switch isn't the query here. I am only asking if the punishment of can baiting of old in rookie systems has been reciprocated in light of the newer crimewatch mechanics. It's still rookie systems, still with people making themselves open to attack from rookies (via theft from a can, though not necessarily the rookie's can) before blowing them up.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#7 - 2013-02-10 17:17:57 UTC
it's optional to attack a blinker that's done nothing towards you.

it's different if something is actually being stolen in the process.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-02-10 17:19:24 UTC
Some of these actually get recruited after losing their ships.
Works for can-baiting in belts too.

Not saying that there aren't any morons blowing them up for fun, though.


Anyhow, i suggest gathering a few dozen noobs and simple dealing with them ...
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#9 - 2013-02-10 17:21:11 UTC
Still, stealing a can would blinky you doesn't mean someone got baited etc...

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Whitehound
#10 - 2013-02-10 17:23:33 UTC
Kimball Bergbau wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Kimball Bergbau wrote:
To me, nothing personally. However I have seen occasional rookies engage these pilots. Moments later, they don't have a ship.

So they only attacked and got shot down? There was no bait'n'switch tactic used?


Bait and switch isn't the query here. I am only asking if the punishment of can baiting of old in rookie systems has been reciprocated in light of the newer crimewatch mechanics. It's still rookie systems, still with people making themselves open to attack from rookies (via theft from a can, though not necessarily the rookie's can) before blowing them up.

I cannot imagine that a standard attack on a suspect player within a rookie system could ever be turned into baiting. It is an obvious mechanic now and there is no "free stuff here"-can that tries to rick a noob into a fight he might not want. The noob will have to engage the suspect player. PvP simply does not get more consensual than this.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#11 - 2013-02-10 17:28:53 UTC
Hmm...that only applies if the player is aware of and has an indepth understanding of the new mechanics. I'll go out on a limb here and state that most rookies won't.

So yeah, a GM clarifying this issue would probably be appreciated, the way it sounds to me right now is basically like this:

Suspect tank at your porch, you shoot it with your handgun, it shoots you with its smoothbore. Predefined outcome galore.
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-02-10 17:57:35 UTC
Sentries at stations in rookie systems should engage those with suspect flags?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#13 - 2013-02-10 18:01:48 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Sentries at stations in rookie systems should engage those with suspect flags?

Boy, that would suck for the budding thief...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
stoicfaux
#14 - 2013-02-10 18:08:26 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Sentries at stations in rookie systems should engage those with suspect flags?

Boy, that would suck for the budding thief...

And would potentially give them a false sense of security when outside of rookie systems.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#15 - 2013-02-10 18:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Demolishar
Maybe CCP should add a "Protected Noob" status, making them immune to all pvp. BUT: If they subscribe even once using PLEX or GTC, that status is gone forever. And they retain the "can't use contracts" limitation of the trial (wouldn't want them to get scammed now, would we?) And they can't use "give money" cause they might try to double their isk. And they can't leave highsec.

Let them opt out at any time, too.
So long as they're paying cash subscriptions rather than increasing the PLEX price, I have no problem with pvp-phobic non-content-creating carebears.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#16 - 2013-02-10 18:13:59 UTC
Suspect flag= unable to dock in empire.

FW=unable to dock at enemy faction space stations.

2 problems solved.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#17 - 2013-02-10 18:30:31 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Maybe CCP should add a "Protected Noob" status, making them immune to all pvp. BUT: If they subscribe even once using PLEX or GTC, that status is gone forever. And they retain the "can't use contracts" limitation of the trial (wouldn't want them to get scammed now, would we?) And they can't use "give money" cause they might try to double their isk. And they can't leave highsec.

Let them opt out at any time, too.
So long as they're paying cash subscriptions rather than increasing the PLEX price, I have no problem with pvp-phobic non-content-creating carebears.


Nah not a good idea at all, protected noob status shouldn't exist. The message needs to be made as clear as possible, as early as possible, that the game is harsh and unforgiving when it comes to your actions.

If you introduce "protected noob" status, even less trial and new players are going to try their hand at PvP, so instead they'll flock to boring things like mining, where they quickly burn out due to the grinding aspect, and subsequently they will quit the game.

The current system is fine when it comes to baiting newbies, although it would be nice to have clarification on this issue.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-02-10 19:01:35 UTC
if I am not mistaken a GM did say that making use of suspect flag in rookie system to get newbies to attack you is baiting.

To be honest I don't feel like searching for who said that because I do not believe common sense needs to be explained.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#19 - 2013-02-10 19:17:36 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
if I am not mistaken a GM did say that making use of suspect flag in rookie system to get newbies to attack you is baiting.

To be honest I don't feel like searching for who said that because I do not believe common sense needs to be explained.


This is correct. HOWEVER, if you do not touch the rookies, but only attack the older players who shoot you, you are doing nothing wrong. While CCP refuses to identify rookies, I'd suggest that you don't shoot unless the player attacking you is a minimum of one month old.
Kimball Bergbau
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-02-10 20:34:24 UTC
That post dates back to June but has a clear enough message that still applies. If I see a rookie taken out (2 weeks or younger going by the GM's notion of "barely a week in") then I know what to do.

Thanks Adriel Malakai
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