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the exclusive club of sov space...is it ?
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Shanara As
Psy Corp Ltd.
#101 - 2013-02-07 14:20:00 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Shanara As wrote:
hey there,

(...random hi-sec puibbie mutterings...)

is this just my perception ? is it flawed ?



Yes. Yes.



hehehe

uber -"me-so-leet" pvp null whatever hot shot... thx mate. really much insight.
but hey you can use the quote-tags. well done.

anyways. flames aside. point is made by most and some very good points have been brought up. thx for taking part and sharing you vast knowledge

"Gotta spend money to make money" "A fool talks, a wise man listens" "He who doesn´t wanna listen, talks the most"
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#102 - 2013-02-07 15:01:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course sov space is an exclusive club.
It's supposed to be that way.
Don't like it? Fight, bargain, or pay your way into the club. Everyone else did.

Agree, also fighting out numbered is actually more fun than being in huge blob, get into a fleet of 20 or so bombers and no blob is safe even with carriers, so you can fight outnumbered and win, been done many times.

......................................................
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2013-02-07 15:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Just saying, the biggest groups in EVE have the advantage of outside blood, they have access to a much bigger potential member pool than most corps due to their ability to entice new players into the game, and their crazy powers of absorbing all the other corps under an alliance banner

Might be wrong about this, probably am

Most of the CFC is "EVE Born", most of Goonswarm is "Eve-Born", the HBC is led by and filled by majority "EVE-born" players. Is there a third category for "Russia-born" as well, because those guys aren't going anywhere either.
Bob Killan
Dzark Asylum
#104 - 2013-02-07 16:00:00 UTC
Interesting thread, but if i can derail slightly.

whether people agree or disagree there is one common theme here. power block control 0.0.

Take a step back and ask if this is good for the game rather than asking ifits right or wrong.

IMO its very bad for the game, if everyone is allied there is no war, if there is no war people make masses of isk, masses of isk make it nigh on impossible for another block to compete unless they can secure the same levels of isk which wont happen if one block "owns" all the major alliance isk gathering resources.

So there is a problem. And the agreement with the OP question about a small corp staking a claim in 0.0 is hitting close to the spot.

Eve Online would be mch healthier with 400 small corp battling for teh most lucrative areas of 0.0 that 1 super block that owns everything.

This is supposed to be Eve a cold dark place, a fully blue 0.0 doesn't fit into this one bit.

I think there should be many more routes to everywhere in 0.0. So if you want to claim a region you dont need to cover 2 entry point but you need to cover 25 for instance. making it hard for bigger corps to control masses of space but easier for them to control their area of space. If they live in a area of a size they have the support to control. Ths small corps could then in claim a smal system here and there and the big boy may not be too bothered as it would "cost" the too much to claim and defend that system.

There needs to be more ways for small guys to be sucessful (I dont mean punish the big guys for being big, just make it less rewarding for them to hold all. If taking the system generates 1 bil is a day but would cost (in ships, support, time and logistics) 2 bill to hold they just wouldn't bother. (isk figure used to make a point i dont actually mean it would physically cost that in ISK, more a way of quantifing the effort needed to hold it, hopefully that makes sense lol)

More corp = more wars = more fun = healthier Eve

Double the amount of 0.0 space, triple of quadruple it not sure how possible it would be from a hardware point of view but would give more options to the little guys. And the big guys do need the little guys if only for target practise.

Make a mechanic that requires many small groups working together to gain sov but at different locations, so we have a battle thats 10 skirmishes of 100 ships a side rather than a BLOB of 1000 smart bombs. sorry not many ideas on this one but there must be some ways. possible needing to remove the owning corps flag whilst placing yours on every planet in the system, the small guys could attack another small guy 1 planet at a time. A bigger corp could assault a power block similationously across many systems requiring the BLOB to split or lose valuable space until they can retake it.

Anyhow just a few mussing, but something needs to change to make 0.0 more dynamic with more WAR!!

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2013-02-07 17:08:39 UTC
Bob Killan wrote:
Interesting thread, but if i can derail slightly.

whether people agree or disagree there is one common theme here. power block control 0.0.

Take a step back and ask if this is good for the game rather than asking ifits right or wrong.

IMO its very bad for the game, if everyone is allied there is no war, if there is no war people make masses of isk, masses of isk make it nigh on impossible for another block to compete unless they can secure the same levels of isk which wont happen if one block "owns" all the major alliance isk gathering resources.

So there is a problem. And the agreement with the OP question about a small corp staking a claim in 0.0 is hitting close to the spot.

Eve Online would be mch healthier with 400 small corp battling for teh most lucrative areas of 0.0 that 1 super block that owns everything.

This is supposed to be Eve a cold dark place, a fully blue 0.0 doesn't fit into this one bit.

I think there should be many more routes to everywhere in 0.0. So if you want to claim a region you dont need to cover 2 entry point but you need to cover 25 for instance. making it hard for bigger corps to control masses of space but easier for them to control their area of space. If they live in a area of a size they have the support to control. Ths small corps could then in claim a smal system here and there and the big boy may not be too bothered as it would "cost" the too much to claim and defend that system.

There needs to be more ways for small guys to be sucessful (I dont mean punish the big guys for being big, just make it less rewarding for them to hold all. If taking the system generates 1 bil is a day but would cost (in ships, support, time and logistics) 2 bill to hold they just wouldn't bother. (isk figure used to make a point i dont actually mean it would physically cost that in ISK, more a way of quantifing the effort needed to hold it, hopefully that makes sense lol)

More corp = more wars = more fun = healthier Eve

Double the amount of 0.0 space, triple of quadruple it not sure how possible it would be from a hardware point of view but would give more options to the little guys. And the big guys do need the little guys if only for target practise.

Make a mechanic that requires many small groups working together to gain sov but at different locations, so we have a battle thats 10 skirmishes of 100 ships a side rather than a BLOB of 1000 smart bombs. sorry not many ideas on this one but there must be some ways. possible needing to remove the owning corps flag whilst placing yours on every planet in the system, the small guys could attack another small guy 1 planet at a time. A bigger corp could assault a power block similationously across many systems requiring the BLOB to split or lose valuable space until they can retake it.

Anyhow just a few mussing, but something needs to change to make 0.0 more dynamic with more WAR!!




As it was explained to me, it already is like that, but unfortunately with the "alliance" and coalition features of Eve's metagaming of politics and people having sandy vag's and pussyfootin around is what created the big blue that you see today.

Not a mechanic unfortunately.

So it ends up being a social problem of the players =(.

They'd rather more isk than "healthy eve".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#106 - 2013-02-07 18:16:40 UTC
Your OP is spot on, but only in that it is a hugely difficult task to compete with huge alliances with huge amounts of resources and manpower. What would you like anyone to do about that though? It SHOULD be hard to compete at this level, but just because you can't doesn't mean that is a big limitation.
Christopher Caldaris
Caldaris Enterprises LLC
#107 - 2013-02-07 19:10:17 UTC
You're about 10 years too late.

These players went in when there was nobody and had the time to bank skillpoints and resources.

No new entities will hold sov in 0.0, it's impossible to compete against the sheer volume of wealth and resources these groups have.

It's a lost cause, just forget about it.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-02-07 19:12:07 UTC
All the big empires from 10 years ago still dominate today
CVA, Foundati0n, Stain Alliance, Curse Alliance, Xetic Federation...
can anyone stand up to them?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2013-02-07 19:14:56 UTC
about three years ago goonswarm was so penniless that we were literally funding the entire alliance off ratting taxes, reimbursements were basically a token payment and we were living in syndicate without even a single moon

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-02-07 22:33:22 UTC
[Luke:] I can’t believe it.
[Yoda:] That is why you fail.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#111 - 2013-02-07 23:36:54 UTC
Your opponents are too big for you to take on? Can field fleets bigger than you?

Why don't you recruit more people so you can challenge them on equal footing, or use guerilla tactics to annoy them enough that you start to make headway?

You know, 10 people is enough to RF a POS. Every time you shoot a POS everyone in the owning alliance with POS roles gets an email. Take 100 people, find 100 poses, and everyone start shooting for 5 minutes, then safe up and and go afk.

Wait for their scout who checks it out to leave, wait 20 minutes(so he can get a fair distance away) come out and plink the pos again.

Eventually they will stop checking on the false alarms. Thats when you bring some friends and RF it. Do this to as many high end moons as you have people to do it with at once.

Let the pos come out of RF, and they rep it, and begin the cycle anew.

If you play smart and never try to go head to head with them, they will eventually have to do something about it. Their POS managers will be screaming bloody murder, their grunts will be too bored to show up since there will never be a fight, and you will be impacting their income by a significant degree if you do it right.

This may take a few months before it reaches the breaking point, but a small entity with the smarts, dedication, and patience can bend a large entity to their will. You just have to understand how to break their morale, and be willing to engage is some mind-numbingly tedious work(just like they did to get this stuff in the first place).

You can use this to either force your way in, or just get a nice payout so that you will go away and leave them alone.

Either way, a relatively small entity can certainly hold a coalition hostage by hitting them where it really hurts. The moral of the people who make the isk for them.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#112 - 2013-02-08 00:39:45 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Your opponents are too big for you to take on? Can field fleets bigger than you?

Why don't you recruit more people so you can challenge them on equal footing, or use guerilla tactics to annoy them enough that you start to make headway?

You know, 10 people is enough to RF a POS. Every time you shoot a POS everyone in the owning alliance with POS roles gets an email. Take 100 people, find 100 poses, and everyone start shooting for 5 minutes, then safe up and and go afk.

Wait for their scout who checks it out to leave, wait 20 minutes(so he can get a fair distance away) come out and plink the pos again.

Eventually they will stop checking on the false alarms. Thats when you bring some friends and RF it. Do this to as many high end moons as you have people to do it with at once.

Let the pos come out of RF, and they rep it, and begin the cycle anew.

If you play smart and never try to go head to head with them, they will eventually have to do something about it. Their POS managers will be screaming bloody murder, their grunts will be too bored to show up since there will never be a fight, and you will be impacting their income by a significant degree if you do it right.

This may take a few months before it reaches the breaking point, but a small entity with the smarts, dedication, and patience can bend a large entity to their will. You just have to understand how to break their morale, and be willing to engage is some mind-numbingly tedious work(just like they did to get this stuff in the first place).

You can use this to either force your way in, or just get a nice payout so that you will go away and leave them alone.

Either way, a relatively small entity can certainly hold a coalition hostage by hitting them where it really hurts. The moral of the people who make the isk for them.

All this for the low low price of constantly shooting and possibly reinforcing structures and never getting to fight because you'll be blobbed !

Load pos shoot ammo chaps, we're going to SHOOT POS

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#113 - 2013-02-08 00:40:41 UTC
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
You're about 10 years too late.

These players went in when there was nobody and had the time to bank skillpoints and resources.

No new entities will hold sov in 0.0, it's impossible to compete against the sheer volume of wealth and resources these groups have.

It's a lost cause, just forget about it.

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
All the big empires from 10 years ago still dominate today
CVA, Foundati0n, Stain Alliance, Curse Alliance, Xetic Federation...
can anyone stand up to them?

It's the end, CVA is gonna end us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#114 - 2013-02-08 01:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Alavaria Fera wrote:

All this for the low low price of constantly shooting and possibly reinforcing structures and never getting to fight because you'll be blobbed !

Load pos shoot ammo chaps, we're going to SHOOT POS

Right, just like the guys who currently own the tower had to do.

Besides, people are whining about how they can do nothing? I just gave them a way to do something. I did point out that it is tedious and requires a high level of dedication, but that is the barrier of entry to nullsec no matter how you look at it if you don't want to join a coalition.

Edit: and Batphone might be handy, if the aggressor is smart enough to have one Shocked

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#115 - 2013-02-08 04:09:24 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

All this for the low low price of constantly shooting and possibly reinforcing structures and never getting to fight because you'll be blobbed !

Load pos shoot ammo chaps, we're going to SHOOT POS

Right, just like the guys who currently own the tower had to do.

Besides, people are whining about how they can do nothing? I just gave them a way to do something. I did point out that it is tedious and requires a high level of dedication, but that is the barrier of entry to nullsec no matter how you look at it if you don't want to join a coalition.

Edit: and Batphone might be handy, if the aggressor is smart enough to have one Shocked

Exactly. The small group harassing the bigger one has a powerful batphone.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?