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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Mouse macros legal?
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Kabott
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-02-06 03:24:02 UTC
I have a Razor Naga Elite gaming mouse. I used it in WoW to hardcore raid. Such things were totally legal there, and even required to some extent to play at that level. I am past the very basic stage in Eve, though just a newbie still. But I would like to research and use that gaming mouse to play this game yet better, particularly for example, in pvp.

Now right now I know next to nothing about such use of macros in this game. I would have to research and work on it from scratch. I would definitely be actively at the keyboard performing the mouse clicks to play, and none that I would use would play past a limited quick series of actions per click.

I want to play the game as well as I can, but I have no interest in doing something that would be considered improper.

I would greatly appreciate any informed information about the use of simple macros in this game.
Merouk Baas
#2 - 2013-02-06 03:47:21 UTC
The developers are very anti-mods in this game. The UI does not allow modifications, they don't allow macros, and there is little to no UI customization.

Anything involving a timer, or series of clicks with one keypress, is probably going to be against the rules. You're allowed to use programmable devices, but no automation - stick to one keypress per action.

Note that the EULA rules are somewhat vague; they state that "anything that gives you an advantage over a "normal" player is illegal", which leaves it up to CCP to decide what is "unfair" advantage, what's legal, and what's bannable.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-06 03:49:40 UTC
CCP allows the use of the G15 programmable gaming keyboard, I think it just becomes a problem when you try to automate the whole thing.

Your best bet is to file a petition and don't use the word "macro" Blink

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Kabott
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-02-06 03:57:24 UTC
Did some google research after posting. It does seem they are very anti mods, etc. From what I can tell, most likely against rules.

Thats a little surprising, but it levels the playing field.

But on the other hand doing note taking and outside research to improve your play would give you an advantage, and the way that rule seems to be worded, could get you a ban.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#5 - 2013-02-06 04:16:14 UTC
Kabott wrote:
Did some google research after posting. It does seem they are very anti mods, etc. From what I can tell, most likely against rules.

Thats a little surprising, but it levels the playing field.

But on the other hand doing note taking and outside research to improve your play would give you an advantage, and the way that rule seems to be worded, could get you a ban.


Like Plunder Bunny said, file a petition to get the okay from a GM

The Drake is a Lie
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2013-02-06 04:21:14 UTC
1. It must not give you an advantage over other players.

2. It must require you to interact with the game.

If you have any doubts, file a petition before doing it.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#7 - 2013-02-06 06:22:26 UTC
Eve doesn't all Modifications to the client, and essentially any third-party macro stuff you do cannot involve any kind of software analysis of game output and cannot be independent of your physical input.

Basically the only things that have been approved in the past are the equivalent of mapping several existing commands to the same key. Push beyond that and you're pushing into danger of a ban or suspension pretty much immediately.

Technically, even the old-school hardware "macro" where you hook up the water-bird to peck a key ever few seconds is a TOS violation.

... that said, just using your mouse as a mouse with more buttons than usual doesn't really require any kind of scripting, just press escape and go to the keybindings and see all the stuff you can remap. I know I've gotten some mileage out of sticking orbit at default radius and recall drones to bay on my mouse at one point or another, there's probably plenty of things that could benefit from half a second faster reaction time.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#8 - 2013-02-06 13:51:18 UTC
To put it simply;

- If it's a direct output it's fine, so if you want to map your mouse button to F1, F3 and shift+F5 all at the same time then you're ok to do so.
- if it's a delayed output either trough pausing, looping or programming it's NOT fine.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#9 - 2013-02-06 14:09:59 UTC
Petition if you're curious and you'll get a response, but I'm pretty sure they won't care (or can't possibly detect) macros if they aren't automating your stuff so much that you can go AFK and still do stuff. Basically, if they catch you using macros to mine while AFK you're going to have problems.

Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-06 14:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanzbar
Vilnius Zar wrote:
To put it simply;

- If it's a direct output it's fine, so if you want to map your mouse button to F1, F3 and shift+F5 all at the same time then you're ok to do so.
- if it's a delayed output either trough pausing, looping or programming it's NOT fine.


This is what i Understand from both dev responses in the past and things they have said at fanfest. Multi keystrokes and synchronization programs for multiple clients are ok, so long as automation doesn't come into play such as what Zar mentioned above
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-02-06 14:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sin Pew
Kabott wrote:
I have a Razor Naga Elite gaming mouse. I used it in WoW to hardcore raid. Such things were totally legal there, and even required to some extent to play at that level. I am past the very basic stage in Eve, though just a newbie still. But I would like to research and use that gaming mouse to play this game yet better, particularly for example, in pvp.

Now right now I know next to nothing about such use of macros in this game. I would have to research and work on it from scratch. I would definitely be actively at the keyboard performing the mouse clicks to play, and none that I would use would play past a limited quick series of actions per click.

I want to play the game as well as I can, but I have no interest in doing something that would be considered improper.

I would greatly appreciate any informed information about the use of simple macros in this game.
It's Razer, our Nagas can also be epic, but it's not the same thing P

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-06 17:46:26 UTC
There are macros and then there are macros. Tapping one key to punch out a quick string of commands is generally acceptable, but if the "macro" involves automated if/then decision gates - IE: if the computer's making a choice that is supposed to be made by the person playing the game - then it's flat-out against the rules. Extended command strings may also be problematic.

I think of it this way: if the macro runs longer than it would take for you to take a slow, normal breath and release it, then you're on thin ice.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-06 17:50:09 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
The developers are very anti-mods in this game. The UI does not allow modifications, they don't allow macros, and there is little to no UI customization.

Anything involving a timer, or series of clicks with one keypress, is probably going to be against the rules. You're allowed to use programmable devices, but no automation - stick to one keypress per action.

Note that the EULA rules are somewhat vague; they state that "anything that gives you an advantage over a "normal" player is illegal", which leaves it up to CCP to decide what is "unfair" advantage, what's legal, and what's bannable.


I programmed my cerebellum to automate certain keystrokes. The human brain is a computer.

I shall be banned.

Just joking.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-06 19:19:35 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
Kabott wrote:
I have a Razor Naga Elite gaming mouse. I used it in WoW to hardcore raid. Such things were totally legal there, and even required to some extent to play at that level. I am past the very basic stage in Eve, though just a newbie still. But I would like to research and use that gaming mouse to play this game yet better, particularly for example, in pvp.

Now right now I know next to nothing about such use of macros in this game. I would have to research and work on it from scratch. I would definitely be actively at the keyboard performing the mouse clicks to play, and none that I would use would play past a limited quick series of actions per click.

I want to play the game as well as I can, but I have no interest in doing something that would be considered improper.

I would greatly appreciate any informed information about the use of simple macros in this game.
It's Razer, our Nagas can also be epic, but it's not the same thing P


See. They actually already made a gaming mouse after your alliance.

IB4 a Goons Keyboard and SOLAR Joystick.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-06 19:22:48 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
To put it simply;

- If it's a direct output it's fine, so if you want to map your mouse button to F1, F3 and shift+F5 all at the same time then you're ok to do so.
- if it's a delayed output either trough pausing, looping or programming it's NOT fine.


So basically.

If you map a key to do:

1.) Activate guns (say lasers)
2.) Wait "xx" seconds (which is the time it takes to deplete your capacitor to a certain level).
3.) Activate your cap booster module.

This is Automation and can result in a swift strike of the ban-hammer by CCP

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-02-06 19:39:55 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
See. They actually already made a gaming mouse after your alliance.

IB4 a Goons Keyboard and SOLAR Joystick.
Too late.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-06 19:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Sin Pew wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
See. They actually already made a gaming mouse after your alliance.

IB4 a Goons Keyboard and SOLAR Joystick.
Too late.


Already saw that one (actually saved on my RvB toon in the folder with "F local up with useless crap"

EDIT:

This is my opinion in EVE PvP usually...

http://shrani.si/f/3c/5q/4Us71yG5/acidpicdump04.jpg

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#18 - 2013-02-06 21:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Zero
J'Poll wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
See. They actually already made a gaming mouse after your alliance.

IB4 a Goons Keyboard and SOLAR Joystick.
Too late.


Already saw that one (actually saved on my RvB toon in the folder with "F local up with useless crap"

EDIT:

This is my opinion in EVE PvP usually...

http://shrani.si/f/3c/5q/4Us71yG5/acidpicdump04.jpg


Brilliant, J'Poll. Just brilliant. :)


RE: The Bold bit, I've always figured there were two kinds of Eve pilots:

1) Those who join RvB.
2) Those who join RvB on an alt.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-06 21:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Cameron Zero wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
See. They actually already made a gaming mouse after your alliance.

IB4 a Goons Keyboard and SOLAR Joystick.
Too late.


Already saw that one (actually saved on my RvB toon in the folder with "F local up with useless crap"

EDIT:

This is my opinion in EVE PvP usually...

http://shrani.si/f/3c/5q/4Us71yG5/acidpicdump04.jpg


Brilliant, J'Poll. Just brilliant. :)


RE: The Bold bit, I've always figured there were two kinds of Eve pilots:

1) Those who join RvB.
2) Those who join RvB on an alt.


Well. My definition of alt / main is vague...It really depends on what I want to do in EVE on who I class as my main.

Lately spent more time on my RvB character then I do on my other characters cause shooting your Elmo pilots is fun. But it can change quickly too.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#20 - 2013-02-06 21:32:41 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Lately spent more time on my RvB character then I do on my other characters cause shooting your Elmo pilots is fun.


QFT

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"