Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Like everything else, execept maybe ship with armor resist bonus/rep bonus. You said nothing that is new i'm afraid. Shield or gimp - talos is just one of many examples. Sure people do armor tanking - mostly Amarr because we got no choice(frigates can even go with 2 mids and both laser cruisers got just 3 mids).

So it's has less shield/armor/hull/launchers/slots as a whole.

But it gained mass/lost speed/lost agillity/ lost cpu/lost powergrid/lost capacitor/ lost capacitor recharche time and gained Signature

"TO GAIN A BIGGER CARGOHOLD?!!!!" for the fewer missiles that it is going to fire.

Who made a Galente lead disigner for the Caldari state :)

Although it should do more damage it became even lamer, than the first draft.

The Cyclone:

Outdamages the Drake with everything but Scourge.

Has a bigger drone bay and can bring larger drones or 2 flights

has only 250 Shield hp less and 500 armor more

a bigger capacitater.

is faster more agile.

has a smaller signature radius

Has more Powergrid

Has more CPU

Has 1 more low slot and one less mid

Active shield bonus vs. Resist bonus

BTW they have the same Cargohold :)


I can understand the reson to reballance and make more ships usefull, though this is ripping almost every bit of use from it.

Give it an general damage bonus an maybe a 7,5 % damage a level in that case they both have several options.

Wow, the stock Cyclone has a massive 4.2% more dps than a Drake at BC level 5... Unless the Drake uses kinetic, where it then has 44% dps more than the Cyclone... (And actually, with 6 launchers using kinetic, it does 2.9% more dps than it used to with 7.)

How aweful.

And all that EHP, whatever will you do? ...as the Drake continues to have one of the most solid tanks in its class?

Yes. I suggested this in a couple earlier posts itt. No response.

For a long time the auguror had such a bonus. It was % based. But alternately CCP could get more control on the actual amount by making it a purely hp amount bonus per level.

Such a bonus is more comparable to resist bonuses and thus allows fleet usage and not just solo. The AARs are not going to equate to ASBs unless CCP nerfs ASBs some more. That appears unlikely unfortunately. So AARs can be part of the game for those seeking solo play for any race of ships they want to armor tank. But please don't lock both (or either in my mind) Gallente BCs into this style of play and leave them gimped for gang/fleet usage.

I suppose if the repper bonus has to stay on one of the ships it would be better left on the Myrm, as drones and fleet use are less synched (at least pending more drone adjustments).

Another thing about an hp bonus is that there are the misnamed and inadequate "regenerative" armor platings (would like to buy some very slow regen from these for ss'd repping after a fight and they might see some use). So one could view a Gallente armor hp bonus as simply a built in regenerative plating. Nothing game or backstory breaking with such a bonus.

edit - just as amarr armor resist bonuses act like a built in eamn, a gallente armor hp per level bonus would act like a buitl in regenerative plating.

edit 2 - and the drone boats already get a drone hp per level bonus without adding mass as a plate would. So Gallente scientists figured out how to adapt that technology onto the ship hulls. Maybe it involved some radiation that would fry a live crew and they figured out how to shield the crew from that radiation. ~

edit 3 - and to change subject, still not seeing any slight increase in the passive regen time for BCs as a class. Ridiculous PVE passive BC regen was identified in earlier blogs or CSM minutes as an issue for alteration. Retaining a near cruiser regen time on a near BS hp level is a problem. The drake is getting a very slight shield hp nerf but the effect of this on out of whack pve regen tank setups will probably be negligible. Please bump that regen time up from 1400 to something higher (1500? hell even 1450 would be something at least).

I am in no doubt you are using the feedback for your work and I hope you are not as arrogant/ignorant as the lack of replies could suggest to certain tinfoil worshippers. Apart from the sudden lack of visible presence in the balance threads after only a single adjustment I feel you have provided the community well with information in a clear and respectfull way. Thank you...

However I would as a player giving feedback really appreciate some form of counter-arguments to the more serious questions and suggestions instead of a generic "I think I'm right in the first place and we might look into things again later". At least as a player we get to know how you are thinking if you reply.

The question "why do both gallente ships have the same active tank bonus instead of other interesting options?" was answered with "We think it's interesting enough" and "we're changing active armor repairing". Personally I agree both the Myrmidon and the Brutix are very interesting as they are now, but as a whole you haven't fixed any of the Myrmidon issues while you had the chance (better as ASB tank, mostly fits autocannons instead of blasters, stinks in fleets etc)

The question "Why does harbinger have the obsolete cap bonus?" wasn't really answered and the ship seems harder to fit than others while being super fragile with no tank bonus and 1 less lowslot than the Prophecy...

And ofcourse I looked a lot into fittings and ships like Cane and Proph have plenty fittings while I struggle with Harbinger and funny enough your cyclone which has a very generous fitting.

Would it be an idea to create a feedback thread for each race battlecruisers after the patch? I still can't forget how the hybrid rebalance was dumped like your boss told you to drop everything and start working on ships immediately...

Pinky

I'm fully aware there is a kinetic damage superiority.

Many Sansha sips have a Damage superiority as well, not that you see them very often.


considering raw damage: Cyclone could bring 5 med scouts against 5 small scouts of a drake.

it has an extra high ustility against the drake.

it has:

More CPU
More PG
More Cap
more speed
less signature

250 more base hit points

It has a low slot vs a mid slot, low slots usualy have more options.


I need to play with fittings before I make a final judgement but: at first glance I see a ship that:

lost it's PVE mission diversity, and became Gurista and Serpentic specific.

It isn't able to bring much to PvP: so predictable you'd could almost say a laser wil sooner do kinetic damage than a Drake EM, because not only the Cyclone out damages the Drake when not using kinetic, so does the Caracal.

So at this point and I won't call it final untill I played arround with EFT and maybe with it in game.

the only use I see for it is.

Running Gurista/ Serpentis sites and Blob warfare (witch was one of the mein reasons people where compleining about it)

In case the balancing team is running out of alternative ideas concerning active armor reps with Gallente. You could always try for a very unconventional hull HP, hull resist or crazy insane hull rep bonus. Now that would be something completely different.

Could also provide a bit of use for the generally useless reinforced bulkhead and hull repair mods.

Personally however I think it's not too bad both Myrmiddon and Brutix have an active rep bonus. It makes them interesting for small gangs with little or no logistic support. I'm not worried about shield versions being "better" as some might think. I think they aren't. A shield version might have more dps and have a slight speed benefit due to low slot propulsion modules but for those smaller gangs you want and need each and every med slot available for support modules rather then (shield) tank unless you only feel comfortable going for straight up ganks. You win those in just about any setup...

As for other suggestions I feel the Harbinger could use just a little more wiggle room for fitting and I'd like the Cyclone have one low slot moved to a med slot. I'll explain the reasoning for that last suggestion.

After the sneaky shield hardener change I really would like to have slightly more room for either shield resist amplifiers or a small/med cap booster. With a shield boost rather then shield resist bonus the Cyclone has become extremely vulnerable to cap warfare. The Cyclone does not have the benefit of having a built in resist bonus like Ferox or Drake. Sure ASB's don't use cap but without decent (passive) resists your shield will melt very fast. A nos in the high slots though doable isn't really going to cut it.I'm not too worried about the extra med slot being used up for even more ASB's. Limited cpu and low slots will take care of that. One less low slot also forces more hard choices on what to put in the low slots concerning tank/gank/speed/fitting.

I'm not too worried about the Cyclone becoming more like the Drake. Their characteristics still ensure they both have their use in different fleet/gang concepts. And after all the Cyclone is nothing but a pure shield tanker so it makes sense to pattern it like other active shield tankers like the Breacher, Maelstrom and it's T2 variant the currently unmodified Claymore.

The Myrm has alot more playing room then the Brutix. The Myrm would still be popular with a :

Armor HP bonus (Occator has it so not unheard of)
Drone tracking bonus
Drone MWD bonus
Hybrid tracking
Hybrid damage

All of the above are consistent with the Gallente drone line. You can fit a 1600 plate on a Myrm and not care about downsizing the guns. Not so much with the Brutix.

You misunderstand.



Indeed. Since we fly ships rather than bonuses, it is absurd to criticise a bonus as "bad" or "obsolete"; it is not useful to look at bonuses in isolation because bonuses do not exist in-game in isolation. As you say, what matters is the value of the ship as a whole.

The arguments of diversity and uniqueness also have merit. Even if a ship was agreed to deserve a tank boost, it might not be appropriate to move its active rep bonus to resist or EHP, if it resulted in a reduction of the diversity of ships and tanking style seen in game - the route to fixing active tanking doesn't involve deleting it. I appreciate that the diversity argument cuts both ways - where is the diversity in both Caldari/Gallente BCs having resist/rep bonuses? - but diversity still has to be balanced against inter-and intra-class balance, making it problematic IMO to give the Ferox a damage bonus, or the Brutix a tracking bonus in place of its rep bonus.

But this isn't to say that active-tank bonuses shouldn't be replaced on certain ships. Command ships, for example, need to survive as link platforms in fleet environments, and hence are entirely deserving of resist bonuses, just as seen for HICs, whose role puts them in a similar environment. In this case, any perceived lack of diversity of CS bonuses is trumped by the needs of their narrow tactical role.

In the specific case of the call for 10% rep bonuses, it has merit as part of a fix to active-tanking ships. But it shouldn't be applied across the board, it should be applied where needed. A 10% rep bonus for the Incursus would probably be excessive; the Sleipnir certainly has no argument for deserving a 10% boost bonus. Ultimately, it all comes back to fixing the ships that need fixing, rather than crudely applying blanket changes. Hence, balance individual ships rather than classes of bonuses.

"and maybe with it in game."

I mean no offense to the specific individual who said this but this is the problem with the majority of the posters in this thread. Put down the EFT and load up Sisi fly the new ships then come back and post your nonsense at least then you will have some practical experience to back it up.

Some Ship musing

Dual rep MAR2/MAAR Brutix stats without implants drugs fleet or a booster alt. Rigs: nano pump/nanobot acc/(anti-ex pump or anc current router depending on useful utility high or not.

No heat 1350 every 7.6 Seconds
Heat 1476 every 6.5 Seconds

2 trimarks and a meta4 1600 give about 8757 raw armor you have to live 38 seconds for your active tank to be better.
3 trimarks 800t2plate 7492 you have to live for 32 seconds for your active tank to be better.

Its a pretty decent active tank for solo and small gang pew. You also get the benefit of being faster while active tanked. Add boosters drugs fleet bonuses and implants and you really have something. Of course the same can be said of armor buffer tanks.

I played around with a possible fleet fit brutix. 200mm rails get you a respectable 512 DPS @ 15 and 34 with cn anti(1x MFS 356 + 155 From drones) About 60000 EHP with 66% being the lowest resist. Not terrible IMO

Like has been said I still think the Brutix needs a little more PG. Also if one of the gal ships loses the active bonus make it the Myrm. The Myrm will benefit far more from other bonuses then the brutix will Give it a bonus to help it apply its drone damage. Anybody that uses heavy drones knows how challenging it can be.

Wiv