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arbitrator vs vexor for exploration combat complexes
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Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-05 15:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
i am currently training drones, as i will be using one of these ships for an all-in-one type of exploration ship. what im going to do, is move from system to system scanning for sigs - the three im interested in are radar, magnetometric, and of course, rated and unrated complexes. whichever ship i chose, will have a codebreaker, analyzer, salvager and obviously a probe launcher. with this fit, radar and mag sites shouldnt be too much of a problem for my drones to handle, especially once i get into the tech 2 variety.

running complexes are what are creating my indecision on which ship to go with. that being said, whichever ship i chose between the 2, im going to carry extra gear, so that when i find a complex, i can just go to the nearest station and swap out my exploration gear for a more combat related fit.

after doing some research and comparing the 2 ships side by side, it seems that the arbitrator is very similar to the vexor in its capabilites, but just not as good at any of it. i would prefer to go the arby route though, and here are the reasons why:

1. most of my exploration is going to be in the amarr regions
2. i would like to get to pilgrim/legion ships eventually
3. purely cosmetic (i love the arby hull vs the vexor hull)

it just seems to me that the arby cant be nearly as good as the vexor when it comes to running complexes. am i wrong about this?

vexor has more drone bandwidth and alot more power grid. also, the vexor has bonuses towards its turret system.... arbitrator does not. keep in mind, whichever ship i do decide on, isnt going to be able to fit any rigs because i will already have 2 gravity rigs in those spots. also, i will be leaving the salvager on either ship after changing out gear.

edit - i could just bring dps/tank related rigs in the cargo and just destroy the gravity ones everytime im going to gear out to run a complex. maybe just get the skills to be able to make the rigs myself as i would be treating gravity rigs as a disposable item - good idea?

i just dont want to be trying to run tougher complexes with a gimpy ship. from what i can see, when you factor drones plus weapon systems dps, the vexor will win by a landslide.

p.s. --- someone please convince me to why it would still be ok to just go with the arbitrator, lol.

thanks for any advice for a noob
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-05 15:49:21 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
i am currently training drones, as i will be using one of these ships for an all-in-one type of exploration ship. what im going to do, is move from system to system scanning for sigs - the three im interested in are radar, magnetometric, and of course, rated and unrated complexes. whichever ship i chose, will have a codebreaker, analyzer, salvager and obviously a probe launcher. with this fit, radar and mag sites shouldnt be too much of a problem for my drones to handle, especially once i get into the tech 2 variety.

running complexes are what are creating my indecision on which ship to go with. that being said, whichever ship i chose between the 2, im going to carry extra gear, so that when i find a complex, i can just go to the nearest station and swap out my exploration gear for a more combat related fit.

after doing some research and comparing the 2 ships side by side, it seems that the arbitrator is very similar to the vexor in its capabilites, but just not as good at any of it. i would prefer to go the arby route though, and here are the reasons why:

1. most of my exploration is going to be in the amarr regions
2. i would like to get to pilgrim/legion ships eventually
3. purely cosmetic (i love the arby hull vs the vexor hull)


Looks like you are biased against the Vexor already, so go Arbitrator. You will be using Gallente drones for PvE, so both ships will have exactly the same damage profile, and both ships have 100% identic damage profile in armor against EM/Thermal that the Amarr rats use.

Quote:
it just seems to me that the arby cant be nearly as good as the vexor when it comes to running complexes. am i wrong about this?

vexor has more drone bandwidth and alot more power grid. also, the vexor has bonuses towards its turret system.... arbitrator does not. keep in mind, whichever ship i do decide on, isnt going to be able to fit any rigs because i will already have 2 gravity rigs in those spots. also, i will be leaving the salvager on either ship after changing out gear.


For ratting and complexes, you are better off throwing 5 Medium drones and not a mixture of Medium and Heavy drones. So the bandwidth difference is a non-issue. The turrets on the Vexor are secondary for PvE, as you have to maximize your tank and fit a Salvager, Codebreaker and Analyzer. As far as I know, you won't be able to fit a full rack of medium guns.

You will be relying on drones for the actual killing.

Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
edit - i could just bring dps/tank related rigs in the cargo and just destroy the gravity ones everytime im going to gear out to run a complex. maybe just get the skills to be able to make the rigs myself as i would be treating gravity rigs as a disposable item - good idea?

i just dont want to be trying to run tougher complexes with a gimpy ship. from what i can see, when you factor drones plus weapon systems dps, the vexor will win by a landslide.

p.s. --- someone please convince me to why it would still be ok to just go with the arbitrator, lol.

thanks for any advice for a noob


I don't really know what can a Vexor handle that an Arbitrator cannot, but I expect it's...nothing. Both ships are great and cheap for High Sec exploration, and probably adequate for some Low Sec sites, albeit sub-par.

Really, if you like the Arbitrator looks and want to go Pilgrim/Curse eventually, go Arbitrator, man. It's not inferior to the Vexor.
Aria Ta'Rohk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-05 15:50:01 UTC
Considering what you have said, I say try both and see what you like more! You can always ditch the one you don't like and continue with the other. They share almost all their skills, minus the racial cruiser and the Vexor getting a hybrid bonus. But that is a fairly useless bonus on an exploration ship because you fill the highs with probe launcher, cloak (for lowsec and nullsec) a drone range mod, and a salvager. Maybe a Nosferatu as well in case you need some extra cap and are close to a rat. Try both, and continue with whichever you like more.

I'll take 2 carebears to go, with extra tears
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-05 15:57:57 UTC
The Vexor is a combat cruiser with a bonus to its two primary weapon systems, while the Arbitrator is a disruption cruiser with bonuses to one weapon system and an ewar system. So yes, for PvE complexes where ewar is of limited use, the Vexor is probably the better choice. However I only use an all-in-one for lowsec where I'm using three out of four high slots for utility. In that case, I like the Arbitrator's slightly deeper drone bay.

I think gravity capacitor rigs are a bit too expensive to use as a disposable item. If you're going to dock between bookmarking and running sites, you might as well swap ships.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-05 16:33:53 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:

For ratting and complexes, you are better off throwing 5 Medium drones and not a mixture of Medium and Heavy drones. So the bandwidth difference is a non-issue. The turrets on the Vexor are secondary for PvE, as you have to maximize your tank and fit a Salvager, Codebreaker and Analyzer. As far as I know, you won't be able to fit a full rack of medium guns.


The Vexor gets about 1/3rd of its DPS with T1 rails and about 1/2 with T1 blasters (albeit with poor damage projection). Since the OP has said that he's refitting to a pure PvE build between bookmarking and running complexes, there's no reason to include utility modules. And yes, you can fit a full rack of rails or blasters, although you might need to fit a powergrid rig or go down a size to make everything fit.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-06 12:25:31 UTC
Davith en Divalone wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:

For ratting and complexes, you are better off throwing 5 Medium drones and not a mixture of Medium and Heavy drones. So the bandwidth difference is a non-issue. The turrets on the Vexor are secondary for PvE, as you have to maximize your tank and fit a Salvager, Codebreaker and Analyzer. As far as I know, you won't be able to fit a full rack of medium guns.


The Vexor gets about 1/3rd of its DPS with T1 rails and about 1/2 with T1 blasters (albeit with poor damage projection). Since the OP has said that he's refitting to a pure PvE build between bookmarking and running complexes, there's no reason to include utility modules. And yes, you can fit a full rack of rails or blasters, although you might need to fit a powergrid rig or go down a size to make everything fit.


If he's reshipping/refitting, then yes, perhaps it's worth fitting a full rack of medium railguns to the Vexor.

However, for EVERYTHING High Sec based, I've used a Vexor with Probe launcher, salvager, Codebreaker, Analyzer, and Gravity rigs for scanning.

Just good Drone skills, a single T2 DDA, an EANM II and a T2 medium repper to pulse when needed, and you laugh at anything that High Sec can throw at you.

In many cases, it is enough to tank full rooms, burn to the container and get the loot without issues, even with two dozen frigates shooting at you.

High Sec exploration is hardly worth the effort, but 30 seconds for the occasional A-type small armor repper is fun.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#7 - 2013-02-06 12:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Darius Brinn wrote:
High Sec exploration is hardly worth the effort, but 30 seconds for the occasional A-type small armor repper is fun.


stop lying.


@OP, both arbitrator as Vexor work fine but you'll have to look ahead. The pilgrim isn't really useful at all as it lacks dps and the only cool thing about it is the covops cloak but you can (almost) mimic that by using MWD and T2 cloak (at least if there's no bubbles involved). For traveling a mwd/cloak arbitrator used right is almost as safe as a pilgrim in low sec. Drones are the way to go though; they do amazing dps, have damage type selection, don't use ammo and aren't really affected by any sort of ewar and just forget about anyone whining how drones got "nerfed" or are now "crap", anyone telling you that is a moron.

So, if you look ahead amarr drone boats have... not much, what they have is ****** damage. Gallente on the other hand has the Ishtar and Drone proteus and while the Ishtar is already fine the Sentry Proteus is amazing and, again, anyone telling you differently is... guess what.

The trick to the Proteus is that is has a beastly tank and combined with the slotting and fitting that means it can fit 3 DDA and still have more than enough tank while fitting 2 omniD, resulting in amazing sentry dps. And sentries is what you want because it keeps your drones close and it allows you to do instant damage to the target NPC meaning that if you're competing with someone else like a Tengu (which will happen a lot in high sec) the wreck will be yours.

Here's a Proteus fit to give you an idea which has everything onboard you really need (sites that need an analyzer generally aren't worth your time), it's a bit blingy but that's a choice not a necessity. Would you want to venture into low sec just drop one high and add a T2 cloak.

[Proteus, Explorer Serpentis]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Codebreaker II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Civilian Light Electron Blaster, Civilian Blaster Charge
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Small Tractor Beam II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Garde II x4
Warden II x3
Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5



So to me you're best off to focus on Gallente droneboats because their T2/T3 versions are just better. Atm I'm using a drone sub Legion for exploration because Sansha and Bloods TD you to hell and back and even with heavy pulse + sorch I get TD'd down to 3km optimal so while the drone sub sucks **** it's better than the laser sub, still the dps is crap because it can only field 2 sentries.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-02-06 15:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:
High Sec exploration is hardly worth the effort, but 30 seconds for the occasional A-type small armor repper is fun.


stop lying.


@OP, both arbitrator as Vexor work fine but you'll have to look ahead. The pilgrim isn't really useful at all as it lacks dps and the only cool thing about it is the covops cloak but you can (almost) mimic that by using MWD and T2 cloak (at least if there's no bubbles involved). For traveling a mwd/cloak arbitrator used right is almost as safe as a pilgrim in low sec. Drones are the way to go though; they do amazing dps, have damage type selection, don't use ammo and aren't really affected by any sort of ewar and just forget about anyone whining how drones got "nerfed" or are now "crap", anyone telling you that is a moron.

So, if you look ahead amarr drone boats have... not much, what they have is ****** damage. Gallente on the other hand has the Ishtar and Drone proteus and while the Ishtar is already fine the Sentry Proteus is amazing and, again, anyone telling you differently is... guess what.

The trick to the Proteus is that is has a beastly tank and combined with the slotting and fitting that means it can fit 3 DDA and still have more than enough tank while fitting 2 omniD, resulting in amazing sentry dps. And sentries is what you want because it keeps your drones close and it allows you to do instant damage to the target NPC meaning that if you're competing with someone else like a Tengu (which will happen a lot in high sec) the wreck will be yours.

Here's a Proteus fit to give you an idea which has everything onboard you really need (sites that need an analyzer generally aren't worth your time), it's a bit blingy but that's a choice not a necessity. Would you want to venture into low sec just drop one high and add a T2 cloak.

[Proteus, Explorer Serpentis]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Codebreaker II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Civilian Light Electron Blaster, Civilian Blaster Charge
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Small Tractor Beam II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Garde II x4
Warden II x3
Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5



So to me you're best off to focus on Gallente droneboats because their T2/T3 versions are just better. Atm I'm using a drone sub Legion for exploration because Sansha and Bloods TD you to hell and back and even with heavy pulse + sorch I get TD'd down to 3km optimal so while the drone sub sucks **** it's better than the laser sub, still the dps is crap because it can only field 2 sentries.



considering im going to be doing most of my exploring in amarr space, and will be for quite a long time, how gimpy are the gallente ships going to be in pve against sansha and bloods? ... or do the npc damage profiles not matter as much as i think they do since im going to be using drones for my dps?

also, after lookin at the proteus build you posted, is the medium remote armor repair system for repairing your drones? or can that be used to fix the proteus armor also?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#9 - 2013-02-06 15:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Actually Gallente T2/T3 tank Amarr npc far better than Amarr ones. Amarr get extra kin/explosive which is no use there and gall gets at least thermal, helping a lot.

The RR is to help repair your drones, it's just a "got a free slot, might as well". Also RRing gives you npc aggro :)
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#10 - 2013-02-06 16:46:46 UTC
Power advantage: the Vexor, by far. More generally powerful, more flexible, prettier.

Availability/price advantage: the Arbitrator. Does what you need it to do with little fuss.


Generally, given that we're in the newbie forum, I'd say go with the Arby. You don't really need the excess power or flexibility, and the limitation on your drones in space (i.e. that you have to use 5 meds instead of throwing heavies in there) is what you'll probably end up doing anyhow. So simpler and likely slightly cheaper in the region is your friend.