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Force projection

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celebro
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#1 - 2013-02-03 20:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: celebro
I was wondering what is this 'force projection' thing in 0.0 sov warfare , I've heard it several times on forum posts.

Can someone give me an example and more details and why it is an issue atm.?

thx.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-02-03 20:34:04 UTC
celebro wrote:
I was wondering what is this 'force projection' thing in 0.0 sov warfare , I've heard it several times on forum posts.

Can someone give me an example and more details and why it is an issue atm.?

thx.



You can use a Titan as a sort of mobile jump bridge. Once set up, a fleet can jump through a Titan to a cyno, provided the cyno is within bridge range.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2013-02-03 20:35:07 UTC
Hi,

In this context, I believe force projection is the ability to get your numbers into position quickly via Titan jumps/covert portals and jump bridges.

If you're maintaining your sovereignty, you need to be able to drop defence forces against incursions as quickly as possible.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#4 - 2013-02-03 20:35:24 UTC
The ability to control large areas of space with a limited force.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-02-03 20:35:30 UTC
Think of a rock. That's the force. Now throw it. That's projection.

The discussion is about how far, how big, how many and how quick you are supposed to throw those rocks.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6 - 2013-02-03 20:39:29 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Think of a rock. That's the force. Now throw it. That's projection.

The discussion is about how far, how big, how many and how quick you are supposed to throw those rocks.



well said goo sir. one internet like for you!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
celebro
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#7 - 2013-02-03 20:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: celebro
Ok thks I think it's clearer now, so the best way would be use titans right, or that's the only ship that works.?

..and why has this ability got out of hand what needs to change?

Edit: Or if its really a consensus that it is a major problem?
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-02-03 20:45:47 UTC
In before a bitter sky post
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#9 - 2013-02-03 20:45:59 UTC
celebro wrote:
Ok thks I think it's clearer now, so the best way would be use titans right, or that's the only ship that works.?

..and why has this ability got out of hand what needs to change?


you can also use Jump bridges but they got assfucked last year so they are balanced...

and also covert ops cyno but thats ok because you can only send ships that can fit a covert ops cloak..

the reason this is out of hand is titan proliferation... the simple fact is there are soo many of them and with the current mechanics you can get a fleet from one side of the galaxy to the other in under 30 min...

there is already a hard cap on fleet projection of the max size of a fleet..

the real question is if there needs to be somthing done about it like lowering the max ships and mass amount per jump or/and looking at the reasons why alliances have to take soo much space to start with i.e only 5-6 ships per 0.0 system can take advantage of belts/annoms so an alliance with 2k plus people needs lots of space and also passive pos income...

in the end all of the above have to be looked into to make 0.0 vibrant again for all size alliances.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#10 - 2013-02-03 20:46:51 UTC
Don't worry, it's not an actual problem.
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-02-03 20:48:33 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Think of a rock. That's the force. Now throw it. That's projection.

The discussion is about how far, how big, how many and how quick you are supposed to throw those rocks.


To elaborate on this, it's the range & speed & force of rock throwing in order to deter intruders who come into your patch of land. If you can't throw rocks fast or hard or long enough to hit these dudes, then you lack the force projection to really hold that patch of land and it will be taken from you.
Whitehound
#12 - 2013-02-03 20:58:09 UTC
celebro wrote:
Ok thks I think it's clearer now, so the best way would be use titans right, or that's the only ship that works.?

..and why has this ability got out of hand what needs to change?

Edit: Or if its really a consensus that it is a major problem?

One can protect against it with a cyno blocker, but this requires sovereignty, and so will not work in low-sec. Low-sec pirates, who form small roaming fleets then get hot-dropped by large fleets out of 0.0 for lols. I can imagine this depresses the fun in low-sec.

Others will simply feel threatened by it and want the large power blocks to have less power and reach in general.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
celebro
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#13 - 2013-02-03 20:59:14 UTC  |  Edited by: celebro
MeBiatch wrote:
[e only 5-6 ships per 0.0 system can take advantage of belts/annoms so an alliance with 2k plus people needs lots of space and also passive pos income...


So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?
Whitehound
#14 - 2013-02-03 21:06:43 UTC
celebro wrote:
So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?

No. A little corp can certainly stand a chance. What matters is politics. If your intention is to get a foothold in 0.0 and then unleash hell on everyone around you then why exactly should this see a support in the mechanics by cutting everyone's force down?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
celebro
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#15 - 2013-02-03 21:11:11 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
celebro wrote:
So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?

No. A little corp can certainly stand a chance. What matters is politics. If your intention is to get a foothold in 0.0 and then unleash hell on everyone around you then why exactly should this see a support in the mechanics by cutting everyone's force down?



So you need to make friends, being smart , committed and skillful in combat means nothing?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-02-03 21:12:12 UTC
celebro wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
[e only 5-6 ships per 0.0 system can take advantage of belts/annoms so an alliance with 2k plus people needs lots of space and also passive pos income...


So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?



Taking and holding sov is a group effort. It isn't a thing for the little guys any more then conquering and holding a country in the real world is for the little guys.


If you are interested in small holding, look into wormholes. Titans can't bridge into them, there are no sov grinding/bills, and you can even close entrances if they happen to lead to places with lots of hostile players.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-02-03 21:13:55 UTC
celebro wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
celebro wrote:
So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?

No. A little corp can certainly stand a chance. What matters is politics. If your intention is to get a foothold in 0.0 and then unleash hell on everyone around you then why exactly should this see a support in the mechanics by cutting everyone's force down?



So you need to make friends, being smart , committed and skillful in combat means nothing?


If you really are a top notch combat pilot, you can get into a PvP corp that does sov war type stuff.

But you aren't going to kill multi-million hit point sov structures, or defend such structure, all by yourself.
Whitehound
#18 - 2013-02-03 21:18:39 UTC
celebro wrote:
So you need to make friends, being smart , committed and skillful in combat means nothing?

Not sure if I get your sentence...

Yes, you need to make friends. You can think of EVE as a single player game while you are in high-sec, but latest in 0.0 will you need to realize that this is a MMO PvP game.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-02-03 21:18:54 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Think of a rock. That's the force. Now throw it. That's projection.

The discussion is about how far, how big, how many and how quick you are supposed to throw those rocks.

That was so good you shall be my vizier when I become Emperor of all.
The exasperated one who always has the answer and snarks a lot, not the evil one that will constantly try to usurp me.
That's a temporary position.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-02-03 21:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
celebro wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
[e only 5-6 ships per 0.0 system can take advantage of belts/annoms so an alliance with 2k plus people needs lots of space and also passive pos income...


So what I gather is, force projection makes New Eden small and promotes only large alliance that need to hold many systems, that means little corps don't stand a chance to hold sov right?
Little corps can always choose to work alongside big alliances and work collectively towards a goal. Additionally, 'force projection' lets the large alliance escalate fights and deploy easier but also is the only allowing the small corp or alliance to live out in the middle of nowhere. Unless you think the small alliance really has a chance slowly escorting freighters full of their supplies gate by gate dozens of jumps through hostile space, assuming they'd still even want to run a small alliance with all the additional bother.

'Force projection' generally means any form of transportation that's done not using a gate. As you might expect, complaints are often non-specific game with suggested changes having lots of unconsidered consequences.
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