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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Skill Training and Character services

Author
Koko Hekmatyer
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#1 - 2013-01-30 16:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Koko Hekmatyer
So I have been thinking of a few things, probably already stated, but I am fairly new to the game. ( 2 1/2 Months )

Now, I am not against the idea of skill training by any means, it suits this game well, but my idea I think might have a great positive side to it. Even when you aren't training any skills you should get a base amount of skill points.
I'm not talking about if a account is inactive, but lets say for example : Your computer goes wonky,or you go on a trip, and your training runs out half way through, I know i have missed a day or two of training because I had stuff to do.

I think you should get a set amount of Skill points even when not training so you can allocate them later. Lets say you have +3 in your head. (You would only get a base amount of skill points an hour. No Bonus for implants if not training.) You would get so many Skill points an hour or something. Same with +1 -through +5. Just a thought. :) I don't know if this would make it too... casual though?

Also, this will probably get some hate, but lets say people are new (or old) and have completely messed up their skill training from when they were noobs. You have points everywhere right? If you are a null sec PVP you might have millions in mining because you thought "LET US TRAIN EVERYTHING!" etc. I believe each character should get ONE, ONLY ONE, free reset of their skill points, to unallocate everything and to replace them as they want. Maybe a mining player wanting to switch to PVP. He could use it for that, or a PVP to a Miner. You get the drift or maybe just to switch race options. I am not suggesting you put it as a service. It might be popular but you would have people switching way too much.


Now to character naming feature. My friend is into the character bazaar and stuff, and he sometimes comments on the.. not so appealing of names. I also understand this is a sandbox world and you don't want people name changing all the time to try to be sneaky or just total jerks to corps or alliances. I also believe that if the character is UNWANTED by that owner and that it is being sold, the new owner should get a chance to change the name. new owner, new life in the EVE universe. IMO.

And name changing in general, if you added it, Maybe just add a tab to the character info "Previously Recorded As" And it would list all the names they have been and changed from and when they did it. Just so you can't have people who are willing to pay for a name change, changing it all the time, or put a limit for once every month or 2 months ETC.

Anyways, these are my ideas, and I hope I am posting in the right area. Don't be too harsh on me if I am just repeating. I am fairly new and don't use the forums often. :P Thanks!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-01-30 17:08:43 UTC
I'll say no to the skills. It's down to you to organise your training and I disagree with expecting CCP to hand you SP when you don't.

The name changing is nothing new and requested quite often. I am personally against it.
Also your argument about bazaar sales is irrelevant, as this would still be used by people simply swapping chars to other accounts. An easy solution to that is, if you don't like a characters name then don't buy it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Koko Hekmatyer
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#3 - 2013-01-30 17:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Koko Hekmatyer
Mag's wrote:
I'll say no to the skills. It's down to you to organise your training and I disagree with expecting CCP to hand you SP when you don't..



Technically they aren't handing you anything. You are paying for the account after all. And there are a lot of things organizing can't call for. :) And nothing is wrong with a bit of forgivness.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2013-01-30 17:23:02 UTC
Koko Hekmatyer wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'll say no to the skills. It's down to you to organise your training and I disagree with expecting CCP to hand you SP when you don't..



Technically they aren't handing you anything. You are paying for the account after all. And there are a lot of things organizing can't call for. :)
You pay for use of the client and access to the server. What you do with that use and access, is down to you.
So yes, they will be handing you SP when you don't organise your skill sheet correctly.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Koko Hekmatyer
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#5 - 2013-01-30 17:31:16 UTC
[/quote]You pay for use of the client and access to the server. What you do with that use and access, is down to you.
So yes, they will be handing you SP when you don't organise your skill sheet correctly.[/quote]

I could out logic you, but i don't want to start an argument on this forum. o7 Fly safe
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-01-30 17:40:44 UTC
Koko Hekmatyer wrote:
Quote:
You pay for use of the client and access to the server. What you do with that use and access, is down to you.
So yes, they will be handing you SP when you don't organise your skill sheet correctly.


I could out logic you, but i don't want to start an argument on this forum. o7 Fly safe
I don't mind if you do tbh, my stance will remain the same, unless you can show a good reason why.

So what did I say, that you could out logic. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2013-01-30 17:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Mag's wrote:
I'll say no to the skills. It's down to you to organise your training and I disagree with expecting CCP to hand you SP when you don't.

The name changing is nothing new and requested quite often. I am personally against it.
Also your argument about bazaar sales is irrelevant, as this would still be used by people simply swapping chars to other accounts. An easy solution to that is, if you don't like a characters name then don't buy it.


I'm not completely against the "Earn SP even if you haven't queued up a skill", but I'm mostly against it...

-- In my opinion unplanned things happen.... you get unexpectedly hospitalized, your house burns down, your .... Many bad things happen that are out of your control. In this game, SP is one of the major methods of player progression.. .and, for people like me who buy a full-year subscription, I can definitely see good reasons to allow characters to accumulate skillpoints even when their skill queue runs out.... However:

1.) I don't care what implants you have in your head.. and I don't care what your attributes are.... The absolute max you should earn stored SP is at the minimum rate possilbe... == (17+.0.5*17)*60 = 1530 / hour... If you can earn fast than this, you potentially allow a person to "not train" to train skills that they are not mapped for faster... In truth... This should be well below this value (like 1000/hr), so storing up SP is ALWAYS sub-optimal training.

2.) I don't like stored SP... Frankly it allows people to insta-train into stuff.. and I think that's generally a bad thing for the game. We have occasional SP refunds when they remove skills from the game... but this is a fairly rare event and you're not guaranteed to get "more", so the impact of stored SP diminishes as people us it up.

3.) Name changes, for a price, aren't necessarily a "bad thing"... but you don't get a clean slate with a character just because you bought it off the forum.... There needs to be a clear indication of a character's name history, corp history, etc... So you can ALWAYS track who that character is... Additionally, contacts would need to "auto-update" with the new character's name. All this is to ensure a character's social history follows the character... no matter what. This has also been posted many times before..
Koko Hekmatyer
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#8 - 2013-01-30 17:49:58 UTC
1.) I don't care what implants you have in your head.. and I don't care what your attributes are.... The absolute max you should earn stored SP is at the minimum rate possilbe... == (17+.0.5*17)*60 = 1530 / hour... If you can earn fast than this, you potentially allow a person to "not train" to train skills that they are not mapped for faster... In truth... This should be well below this value (like 1000/hr), so storing up SP is ALWAYS sub-optimal training.


I didn't know the math on it. So yeah that makes sense. :D
Mag's
Azn Empire
#9 - 2013-01-30 17:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'll say no to the skills. It's down to you to organise your training and I disagree with expecting CCP to hand you SP when you don't.

The name changing is nothing new and requested quite often. I am personally against it.
Also your argument about bazaar sales is irrelevant, as this would still be used by people simply swapping chars to other accounts. An easy solution to that is, if you don't like a characters name then don't buy it.


I'm not completely against the "Earn SP even if you haven't queued up a skill", but I'm mostly against it...

-- In my opinion unplanned things happen.... you get unexpectedly hospitalized, your house burns down, your .... Many bad things happen that are out of your control. In this game, SP is one of the major methods of player progression.. .and, for people like me who buy a full-year subscription, I can definitely see good reasons to allow characters to accumulate skillpoints even when their skill queue runs out.... However:

1.) I don't care what implants you have in your head.. and I don't care what your attributes are.... The absolute max you should earn stored SP is at the minimum rate possilbe... == (17+.0.5*17)*60 = 1530 / hour... If you can earn fast than this, you potentially allow a person to "not train" to train skills that they are not mapped for faster... In truth... This should be well below this value (like 1000/hr), so storing up SP is ALWAYS sub-optimal training.

2.) I don't like stored SP... Frankly it allows people to insta-train into stuff.. and I think that's generally a bad thing for the game. We have occasional SP refunds when they remove skills from the game... but this is a fairly rare event and you're not guaranteed to get "more", so the impact of stored SP diminishes as people us it up.

3.) Name changes, for a price, aren't necessarily a "bad thing"... but you don't get a clean slate with a character just because you bought it off the forum.... There needs to be a clear indication of a character's name history, corp history, etc... So you can ALWAYS track who that character is... Additionally, contacts would need to "auto-update" with the new character's name. All this is to ensure a character's social history follows the character... no matter what. This has also been posted many times before..
I agree with your points about SP. One of my concerns, would be that a change like this is the thin end of a large wedge. Almost like the proverbial foot on the door. Once introduced, then the calls for more and moar SP would grow.

But like I said, it's really down to the player to organise their skill sheet.

As far as name changing is concerned, I do see the argument for this change. But I guess I'm stuck in NO mode for this and feel it goes against the whole your name is your reputation. (yes I know about the history idea)

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2013-01-30 18:13:22 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I agree with your points about SP. One of my concerns, would be that a change like this is the thin end of a large wedge. Almost like the proverbial foot on the door. Once introduced, then the calls for more and moar SP would grow.

But like I said, it's really down to the player to organise their skill sheet.

As far as name changing is concerned, I do see the argument for this change. But I guess I'm stuck in NO mode for this and feel it goes against the whole your name is your reputation. (yes I know about the history idea)

I am flat against any SP recovery that is reactive.
(Goes into effect as a result of the skill queue expiring, hence it reacts to this)
I believe in taking the proper steps, and planning.

By the way I specified reactive above, yes, I could accept a proactive solution. One that somehow allowed a player to plan ahead for an extended absence by acquiring skillbooks, and CCP offering a service for accounts that were prepaid for the duration.
In other words, an extended queue that could plug in available skill books that were present in the character's local inventory.
(I would also specify the account would be locked out and be unplayable for the duration of this, as the player had already made it clear they would not be present)

As to name changing, just no.
Expecting any other player who developed a dislike for the character, and only recognizes the name, to then check the history of every name they see in game on the off chance it might be that person... it is ridiculous.

Accountability in game goes out the window if you permit name changes.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2013-01-30 18:55:34 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I agree with your points about SP. One of my concerns, would be that a change like this is the thin end of a large wedge. Almost like the proverbial foot on the door. Once introduced, then the calls for more and moar SP would grow.

But like I said, it's really down to the player to organise their skill sheet.

As far as name changing is concerned, I do see the argument for this change. But I guess I'm stuck in NO mode for this and feel it goes against the whole your name is your reputation. (yes I know about the history idea)

I am flat against any SP recovery that is reactive.
(Goes into effect as a result of the skill queue expiring, hence it reacts to this)
I believe in taking the proper steps, and planning.



Unless you extend skill queues from 24 hours to several weeks, tell me how you proactively plan for:
  • Your house burns down tomorrow.... and your computer was destroyed....
  • You get hit by a car, and put in the hospital for the next week....
  • A natural disaster ravishes your area, and you lose power/phone for a week....
  • Your Mom has a stroke and you need to move to B.F.E. to take care of her for a month...
  • Islamic Terrorists Raid your embassy, and hold you hostage for a month...

  • Unexpected **** happens... and if you've paid for the game time, why shouldn't you get some benefit from it? Especially since "Real-time" learning is fundamental to player progression...

    Nikk Narrel
    Moonlit Bonsai
    #12 - 2013-01-30 19:13:28 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    Nikk Narrel wrote:
    Mag's wrote:
    I agree with your points about SP. One of my concerns, would be that a change like this is the thin end of a large wedge. Almost like the proverbial foot on the door. Once introduced, then the calls for more and moar SP would grow.

    But like I said, it's really down to the player to organise their skill sheet.

    As far as name changing is concerned, I do see the argument for this change. But I guess I'm stuck in NO mode for this and feel it goes against the whole your name is your reputation. (yes I know about the history idea)

    I am flat against any SP recovery that is reactive.
    (Goes into effect as a result of the skill queue expiring, hence it reacts to this)
    I believe in taking the proper steps, and planning.



    Unless you extend skill queues from 24 hours to several weeks, tell me how you proactively plan for:
  • Your house burns down tomorrow.... and your computer was destroyed....
  • You get hit by a car, and put in the hospital for the next week....
  • A natural disaster ravishes your area, and you lose power/phone for a week....
  • Your Mom has a stroke and you need to move to B.F.E. to take care of her for a month...
  • Islamic Terrorists Raid your embassy, and hold you hostage for a month...

  • Unexpected **** happens... and if you've paid for the game time, why shouldn't you get some benefit from it? Especially since "Real-time" learning is fundamental to player progression...

    You listed several valid reasons to have reactive SP recovery.

    If we could keep it from being abused, that would be an entirely different issue, and I would fully support it.

    But, how do you stop the following hypothetical set of events:

    Player X has two accounts.one they play a lot, and one they want to specialize in, but don't see anything currently that fits them.

    Player X plays the first account, as usual, but then lets the second account go idle, in order to start banking SP. (We will assume both accounts are fully paid for this)
    6 months pass.

    Big patch day: New ship type introduced, as well as major overhaul of an existing ship. Both become very attractive FOTM candidates, and Player X is wanting either, if not both.

    Would he be denied access to using the banked SP for the new ship? I could see that being an obvious detail, since only banked SP could be placed into a skill that did not previously exist. Everyone else would need to slow grind the SP normally in it.

    Here is the real catch: Is he also blocked from putting the SP into the changed ship's skills? He could have been doing this before, when the ship was a less desirable choice, but noone expected the overhaul before it happened.
    Again, banked SP could be dumped into this skill, effortlessly duplicating players who devoted themselves to it before would find their time and effort previously training the skills to be matched instantly by this.
    Many will grind the skill now, but the banked SP would simply hand it to him on a silver platter.
    Bow'en
    Solutum
    #13 - 2013-01-30 22:59:02 UTC
    As you spend more time in game I think you will find this is less of an issue. In general, if you are specializing in an aspect of Eve, the more SP you have, the longer you have to train for improvement. While at 2.5 months it may seem like you are still doing a bunch of 1-3 day skills, Racial Battleships 5, for example is about a month of training.

    My recommendation to avoid your "wasted days" is pick a "wasted days" skill and burn time off it. Considering the Summer Expansion, I recommend BC 5.
    Koko Hekmatyer
    Dark Enlightenment
    New Eden Alliance 99013733
    #14 - 2013-01-31 01:11:18 UTC
    Bow'en wrote:
    As you spend more time in game I think you will find this is less of an issue. In general, if you are specializing in an aspect of Eve, the more SP you have, the longer you have to train for improvement. While at 2.5 months it may seem like you are still doing a bunch of 1-3 day skills, Racial Battleships 5, for example is about a month of training.

    My recommendation to avoid your "wasted days" is pick a "wasted days" skill and burn time off it. Considering the Summer Expansion, I recommend BC 5.



    So if your house was on fire, you would run to your computer change your skills to something that would be wasted day skills because you might not have a computer for a while. That is some dedication I suppose. Remember we said unexpected not stuff you know is gonna happen.
    Sedstr
    #15 - 2013-01-31 01:16:59 UTC
    Koko Hekmatyer wrote:
    1.) I don't care what implants you have in your head.. and I don't care what your attributes are.... The absolute max you should earn stored SP is at the minimum rate possilbe... == (17+.0.5*17)*60 = 1530 / hour... If you can earn fast than this, you potentially allow a person to "not train" to train skills that they are not mapped for faster... In truth... This should be well below this value (like 1000/hr), so storing up SP is ALWAYS sub-optimal training.


    I didn't know the math on it. So yeah that makes sense. :D



    This would be the only option if anything. But I don't like the whole idea.

    ...

    Aruyouni
    Eire Engineers
    #16 - 2013-01-31 01:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruyouni
    Sometimes life happens and those people who can not be on want some compensation i would propose that it be a sub optimal method like distractly, i think the lowest sp/hour is like 1000 or something then make the reactive sp only 250 an hour, yes people could bank sp but if they tried they would be drasticly lower in sp, sure if something became fotm after a patch they might be able to insta train for it, but with such low sp they would not be able to do much else. they would still be behind those who have the proper skills related to it.

    another idea is to make the reactive sp only kick in after 2 days with out training. and have an upper cap per month that could be banked like you can only really bank 1 week of reactive at 250 sp/hour then there really not going to be ahead at all, and this would provide the forgiveness for some people who have life happen to them.

    I wouldnt mind a way to name change, but there would have to be an added 'alias' tab tocharacter bios to know whot hey used to be.