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The next expansion and slogan for EVE : "Impersonality. You are unsignificant".
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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-01-30 14:34:48 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
leyo690 wrote:
Many people, and CCP first, enjoyed seeing that huge battle in Asakai, involving thousands of players.

When someone linked that battlereport to me, i felt a very sad feeling. I saw a game relying on numbers and firepower, not on infividual perfomance and strategy, far from the tenet "the universe is yours".

This battle represents nothing but a new crucial step toward impersonality, where a game will lose all kind of taste, where the player is not more than a simple statistic, where all the game mechanics initially thought by CCP would totally loose its sense. Which is the result of the CCP work for three years. Aren't we rushing straight rigth into a wall ?


I will tell what CCP don't say when they state you can shape the universe.

They don't say that you have to be worth it.

You can be a faceless grunt or you can be the in the coveted inner sanctum of the Cabal. Or even their ultimate leader.

YOU have the challenge to become him, YOU are being given all the tools to do it.
YOU can work for long years till you become the ultimate leader. It's not an easy feat and few can dare to even try, but in the end in EvE it's YOU who forge your destiny. It's not promised to you. You have to do it, or not. Believe in yourself or not. Accept being a forever grunt or not. Know that you got the hard mettle to pull it off or not. CCP can't make your path, only you can. Only you can shape yourself to shape the universe.


Pretty words don't change the fact the fleet warfare is one guy picking targets, and the rest following orders. Victories are won by numbers, and not individual performance.

It is what it is, it can be fun it can be boring, some like it some don't. No one is forced to join fleet fights, you just need to find the style of pvp (or pve) you like.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#22 - 2013-01-30 14:35:18 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Bridge, lock target, F1, get back to whatever it was you were doing


You had fun with it when you were in ncdot spurty dont go all elite pvp on us now Cool

.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-01-30 14:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
leyo690 wrote:
Many people, and CCP first, enjoyed seeing that huge battle in Asakai, involving thousands of players.

When someone linked that battlereport to me, i felt a very sad feeling. I saw a game relying on numbers and firepower, not on infividual perfomance and strategy, far from the tenet "the universe is yours".

This battle represents nothing but a new crucial step toward impersonality, where a game will lose all kind of taste, where the player is not more than a simple statistic, where all the game mechanics initially thought by CCP would totally loose its sense. Which is the result of the CCP work for three years. Aren't we rushing straight rigth into a wall ?


Here are two skirmishes I have been in lately with this character. In both, the kill reports don't really speak the story of how it went down, however every pilot contributed in either the success or failure of the fight. We all had importance. In our part of the alliance, the FC may call primary but we all have our own roles to play. We know who to apply ECM to, and in what priority. We know that if we have a neuting ship, how to apply it to a logistics chain. We know how to get optimal, we know how to spread points. We know how to adjust fire to face new threats. We do this without needing someone to hold our hand.

This comes with a competent fleet. It doesn't always go our way but it sure as hell isn't just hitting F1.


http://www.tl-eve.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=26626

http://www.tl-eve.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=24512


Stop seeing eve through the few huge fleet fights, instead you need to see the countless small engagements. You choose what you want to do, be it a part of the swarm or just a solo killer.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
leyo690
Asocial Club
#24 - 2013-01-30 14:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: leyo690
dexington wrote:

Pretty words don't change the fact the fleet warfare is one guy picking targets, and the rest following orders. Victories are won by numbers, and not individual performance.

It is what it is, it can be fun it can be boring, some like it some don't. No one is forced to join fleet fights, you just need to find the style of pvp (or pve) you like.


(Pretty much the smartest thing i have read since ages on this forum.)

I just find sad that the whole community is simply missing the old school gameplay in-fight, reduced now to, as someone said, as lock-approach-F1.

@vincent gaines : you're true dude, but this scale of fight tend to disappear with time, this through the willness of the new player generation.
Spurty
#25 - 2013-01-30 15:01:15 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Bridge, lock target, F1, get back to whatever it was you were doing


You had fun with it when you were in ncdot spurty dont go all elite pvp on us now Cool


I still have fun with it ;-)

I here to have fun. Being elites effort.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#26 - 2013-01-30 15:31:05 UTC
dexington wrote:

Pretty words don't change the fact the fleet warfare is one guy picking targets, and the rest following orders. Victories are won by numbers, and not individual performance.

It is what it is, it can be fun it can be boring, some like it some don't. No one is forced to join fleet fights, you just need to find the style of pvp (or pve) you like.


If you re-read them again you'd not find them that pretty, but crude reality.

You are clearly not the guy who's going to change EvE's history, so those who do, put you in a secondary position along with many others who are not relevant.

There is somebody up there and victories are won by his plans and individual performance, even if in turns he uses hundreds of thousands other people to execute his will.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-30 15:41:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You are clearly not the guy who's going to change EvE's history, so those who do, put you in a secondary position along with many others who are not relevant.


I know spaceships are serious business, and eve is real... please don't tell me you put making a name for yourself in a video game at the top of the big to-do list.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#28 - 2013-01-30 15:58:11 UTC

That fight is literally the best thing to happen in EVE for ages.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Niveuss Nye
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-30 16:22:22 UTC
Been reading up on stuff...

Now my question is, when is the rest of the null sec universe going to gang up against the Goons so I can eat popcorn and enjoy from low sec?

That way, every day will be an epic news day.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-01-30 16:34:05 UTC
leyo690 wrote:
Many people, and CCP first, enjoyed seeing that huge battle in Asakai, involving thousands of players.

When someone linked that battlereport to me, i felt a very sad feeling. I saw a game relying on numbers and firepower, not on infividual perfomance and strategy, far from the tenet "the universe is yours".

This battle represents nothing but a new crucial step toward impersonality, where a game will lose all kind of taste, where the player is not more than a simple statistic, where all the game mechanics initially thought by CCP would totally loose its sense. Which is the result of the CCP work for three years. Aren't we rushing straight rigth into a wall ?


While I would agree with you from the perspective of large alliance battles I would have to disagree with from others.

If you're looking for something beyond being a cog there is still a place for you in eve....w-space and low-sec. That's not to say that you can't have that individually gratifying position in null....but if you're looking for personal glory in +1000 man fights, well, you'll need to be a FC that wins, I suppose.

Can't really speak for low-sec since I never go there. I always come away feeling unclean. But, as to w-space, small gang ops are very much alive and you can be the hero of the day if you know what you're doing. Oh sure, more numbers mean a better chance of success but, I often seen smaller fleet killing larger fleets there.

Don't ban me, bro!
Din Chao
#31 - 2013-01-30 16:38:02 UTC
You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
leyo690
Asocial Club
#32 - 2013-01-30 16:47:08 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
. But, as to w-space, small gang ops are very much alive and you can be the hero of the day if you know what you're doing. Oh sure, more numbers mean a better chance of success but, I often seen smaller fleet killing larger fleets there.


Yes, yes, and you can check by my employment history, sticking with famous events and famous video, that ive been plenty part of it. That's why i'm defending this gameplay, and get afraid of the EVE future when i see such battle like Asakai one.
A few note about w-space, that has not escaped the phenomen of battle involving more and more people (like 200 or something ?). I don't think w-space will stay outside of the phenomen for long. Every place will see brillant people declaring "we need moar people" instead of "we need a better strategy".
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2013-01-30 22:46:34 UTC
dexington wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You are clearly not the guy who's going to change EvE's history, so those who do, put you in a secondary position along with many others who are not relevant.


I know spaceships are serious business, and eve is real... please don't tell me you put making a name for yourself in a video game at the top of the big to-do list.


Considering the post has been made on the EvE forums and that the OP is complaining about spaceships pilots etc, apparently there's someone who cares.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#34 - 2013-01-30 22:53:41 UTC
So...Op is mad because 1 person cant stand out as the victor in a blobfest? Waaaaaa my instalock cane can no longer whore me to the top of the killboard in giant fights? Im not sure what kind of whine op is....but its a whine, complete with hyperventalating snotbubble nose and everything.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#35 - 2013-01-30 23:01:33 UTC
You don't need to FC great fleets to victory to make a name for yourself. A suprising number of people these days know me as Mr Megathron.
Ghazu
#36 - 2013-01-31 04:14:22 UTC
I am sad too, that the op isn't a special snowflake.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Zhade Lezte
#37 - 2013-01-31 04:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhade Lezte
I'm not a beautiful and unique snowflake, especially when I choose to be a grunt in ~the blob~.

But when I can muster the :effort: I enjoy trying things, learning things, and oh so rarely even organizing/leading things in Merch Industrial, the worst pubbie corp of the pubbies that are Goonswarm in Eve Online: A Bad Game.

It's hardly true that only the directors or whatever in Goonswarm do anything noteworthy. The various special interest groups and squads have their own leadership, and enough of a vacuum from people being lazy that the common grunt can try to get involved in things. And if they make eve online their life and are competent enough they may end up getting noticed and getting more and more tasks and eventually made a director or whatnot, but a lot of folks don't actually want that responsibility and time commitment in their internet spaceship game. I was a corp director in a pretty much irrelevant NPC 0.0 small gang PVP corp before I joined Merch, and while it was pretty fun I sure as hell don't want that responsibility at my current stage in life. Hell, goonswarm actually lets day old newbies FC (admittedly strategically insignificant) fleets. I'm sure a lot of other 0.0 alliances are the same or similar.

So yeah, if you don't find massive fleet fights cool enough conceptually that you can deal with being an F1 monkey (even this isn't true as roles like dictors, logistics, anti-support, combat probing, scouting are all available for various levels of increased mental involvement), maybe that Asakai battle isn't your thing. Fair enough, there is market pvp and solo piracy and faction warfare and whatever the hell else to do in this game.

(Asakai certainly sucked for me since I spent the entirety of it staring at a login screen two jumps out, but that's the server's fault and not the fight's.)
Dea della Morte
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-01-31 04:55:13 UTC
leyo690 wrote:
Many people, and CCP first, enjoyed seeing that huge battle in Asakai, involving thousands of players.

When someone linked that battlereport to me, i felt a very sad feeling. I saw a game relying on numbers and firepower, not on infividual perfomance and strategy, far from the tenet "the universe is yours".

This battle represents nothing but a new crucial step toward impersonality, where a game will lose all kind of taste, where the player is not more than a simple statistic, where all the game mechanics initially thought by CCP would totally loose its sense. Which is the result of the CCP work for three years. Aren't we rushing straight rigth into a wall ?



k so you don't seem, to understand. Titans R SRSBZNZ to some, and when one does something stupid ( Like fail bridge, i really hope he was kicked from corp for that ) **** will happen. Especially when the shitstorm is between two of the most cap/super/titan heavy alliances out there. When theres 300+ Capital ships on a field, you don't matter .. at all. You think the FC gives 2 rifters that you lost your nyx? nope. If you wan't strategy, go out on a roam with less than 15 people. 1/2 BS, 3-5 BCs rest cruisers and frigates, then you'll get tactics, and good fights..

The same rule applies anywhere really. You have 1000 apples for some reason, if you throw one apple away, who cares you have 999 left, what does it bother you for other than OCD?
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#39 - 2013-01-31 04:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Complaining about butterfly effect in a sandbox Ugh

Look, if large scale fleet fights aren't your thing then that's absolutely fine, but enough of this "waaaah, me and my 3 buddies can't go drunk roam and affect sov. Blobs are booooring!" crap.

There's lots of other systems for PvP besides the big 0.0 fights. Do them. If you end getting blobbed anyway, it's not because of the mechanics, but player mentality.

I swear to God, PvPers are worse than miners these days. Asking for the mechanics to shield them from everything but their playstyle.

Supercaps die and people whine, This is starting to get ********, sorry.
Dea della Morte
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-01-31 04:58:20 UTC
^ More things to add to my last post.

I think i came off a bit too much on BIGCAPSHIPBATTLES NO SKILLLOL. Nah, mix some triage archons into the fight, maybe some fun tactics ( i know Nulli has their hilarious slowcat chillfleet, its funny ) you want strategy in a big fight, it can happen, but be prepared for headaches, and lots of isk lost, because managin 300+ capships in a lagfest clusterfuck is impossible. All FC can do is call primaries and hope they die
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