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How much tanking needed for Level 4s?
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Kraimax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-29 02:28:14 UTC
I am planing to buy a rattlesnake to do level 4's. So, my question is, how much passive tanking will i need to tank any level 4's mission with a rattlesnake? (please, base that acording to EFT so i can know what to do).

The way i would do, would be me and my brother, i rattlesnake, and him a dominix, so we can make more dammage.

But still, i may do some level 4's alone, so better know for sure.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-01-29 02:32:53 UTC
Rule of thumb tends to be combine tank+gank of 1000. I personally wouldn't put more than 500 of that in tank, even in a big, slow tank beast like a Rattlesnake, but it's trivially easy to hit numbers like that (4 sprs, 1 lse, 2 shield rechargers, 3 purgers, EM hardener, invuln gets you 666 omni tank and still leaves two lows and two mids to try to actually do damage).
Kraimax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-29 02:39:55 UTC
Just 666 tank? I do some level 3's on a drake with 700 tank (some factions) and sometimes they take down half my shield.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#4 - 2013-01-29 02:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
Read up on how passive shield tanking works. What you describe is normal, and you get peak recharge when your shield is down to around 30%, which is the point where you are receiving max damage you are able to tank (any more than that and your tank will fold).

At 50% that point is still far away though and you are perfectly safe and possibly quite overtanked for the mission.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2013-01-29 02:54:31 UTC
Shrug. I'd consider 666 pretty overtanked. The Mach I last used (before I threw in the towel and just stopped running missions altogether) had a 476 burst tank, but only 78 sustained. And it never ran into trouble because it could actually kill things. You can push a Rattlesnake up over 1500 omni tank (much higher specific) -- but there's just no reason to do it and you end up with pretty pathetic outgoing damage as a result.

Remember, it's impossible to tank a mission to death. You need enough tank to keep doing damage, but any more than that and you're actually making your mission last longer (and paradoxically increasing your need to tank in the first place).
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#6 - 2013-01-29 03:34:47 UTC
Kraimax wrote:
Just 666 tank? I do some level 3's on a drake with 700 tank (some factions) and sometimes they take down half my shield.


It shoots the triggers last or it gets the hose again.

If you keep taking such tank and no gank in, you'll eventually have ganked yourself a ships worth of opportunity cost.
Leetha Layne
#7 - 2013-01-29 05:29:54 UTC
Kraimax wrote:
Just 666 tank? I do some level 3's on a drake with 700 tank (some factions) and sometimes they take down half my shield.



Then it would appear you don't know what you are doing and probably are not ready for Level 4 missions.
Mad0ne
Kosmosemutid
#8 - 2013-01-29 09:10:35 UTC
Why not active tank? Also 600+ ish is easily achievable with rattler and that is lazy mode enough to not give a single ***** whats going on around you.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-29 11:16:14 UTC
Why a tank at all? Slap Micro Jump Drive on the ship, increase range of your sentries and laugh at the incoming damage. Upsides: being stationary is no longer a hinderance, you can reach any point in 200km radius within 3 minutes and the effect looks cool as hell :D
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#10 - 2013-01-29 13:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Kraimax wrote:
Just 666 tank? I do some level 3's on a drake with 700 tank (some factions) and sometimes they take down half my shield.


OMG, 700 tank for L3s? You are either a troll or just terrible.

I was grinding L3s for standings with a new corp for a few days in 1-2 hours sessions in a cynabal (LSE + invul) and it barely got scratched. On the other hand you are using a drake so probably things like manual piloting means nothing to you.

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Kraimax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-29 18:04:32 UTC
Well, it seems i got misunderstood. You see, im saving the money to buy it when i have some extra skills, and it will take a while to save the money needed for a rattle and fitting. So, the last thing i want in a level 4 is to lose the rattlesnake due to some stupidity or lack of information. So, my goal is to be immortal on those missions, so, after i know the missions well i can lose some tank and take more gank. For most of you guys, who already know the game for years and know all about those missions, who are the triggers (i know that mission report site, but ive read some missions that the trigger cant be predicted) and all the stuff you get from game experience, thats not even accounting your probably vast skill points comparing to me.

So, ill reformulate my question... how much tank i need to be pratically unkillable in any level 4's, even if mistakenly i get full gigantic aggro?

And that one from the drake i mentioned, that was before i knew about the mission reports stuff, since then i've never reached 50% shield, yes, i take longer to kill it if i go alone, but i usually bring my brother to increase the dps and i plan on doing that on level 4s too.
Mad0ne
Kosmosemutid
#12 - 2013-01-29 19:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mad0ne
As said 600 omnitank is enough, though it is reasonable to use mission hardeners since it will boost your tank to 1000+ on rattler with decent skills.

ALSO.. light t2 drones.. kill scramblers, you have plenty of shield EHP to take full room beating and pop scramming frigs and you can just warp out.

ALSO to be immortal I advise you to use MJD until you get more familiar with how stuff works in eve.
Kraimax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-29 20:01:46 UTC
Well, thanks for the hints.
DSpite Culhach
#14 - 2013-01-29 21:37:42 UTC
World Collide room three with Angels full aggro was just starting to break tank on a Drake that had ~610 in EFT and that room is one of the most annoying, as it OFTEN goes full-aggro because of where you warp in.

Most L4's I was doing in a raven with 480/940 (940 lasting under 2 minutes with Large Shield Booster) once just got me out of WC room 3 when it got nasty, and cap was running dry (got into low armour), yet in most other L4 missions, the 480 pulsed was more then needed and often even killed everything long range before shields got to 33%, ie only pulsed while flying to next gate to get ready for next room.

In my personal L4's in Angel space, 400 tank is enough for when you control the room, and around 600 is enough to allow enough time to kill whatever is holding you down under full aggro and to get the hell out and come back, with around 800 being the "I can just ignore everything and go to the bathroom" mark, which I have been testing in a Rattlesnake. I have run a ~800 omnitank (EFT) while fixing computers, letting the room have a good go at me and I haven't seen any missions even get me below 75%, and one was Scarlet, where you basically get hit by everything,

EDIT: My notes (I took notes!) say that last Scarlet room, on full aggro, with 800 omnitank, got my shields to 55% at one stage, and I wasn't "clearing" the room, I just took out scram stuff and watched the fireworks.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#15 - 2013-01-30 00:13:39 UTC
The rattlesnake has higher resists than a drake, so the same eft tank will get you further, that said, it is bigger so takes more damage. I active tank mine, it works better that way. Fit 3 x drone damage mods in the lows, 2 x omi's in the mids and 2 drone links in the highs, i also fit a shield rr to support the sentries. Using t2 sentries, depending on skills, you gets round 700 dps with wardens out at 90km, garde's will be more with less range.. my numbers may be a little off, not eft to check.
Omni tank it with a x-l booster and fit a cap booster, haven't had to use it yet.. but keep it just in case. has enough tank for anything.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2013-01-30 01:36:13 UTC
this was my snake setup, recently I droped a shield power relay for a signal amp and a large shield extender for a micro jump drive, at 100km you barely even get hit (and hey with a mjd if you are getting hit too hard you can jump 100km away and then hopefully warp out), guristas are probably the worst case as their missiles still go that far but are nearly all kinetic. for gurista missions it is pretty much unkillable. swap hardeners for different factions.

[Rattlesnake, rattlesnake serpentis ratter]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I


Garde II x5
Warden II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-30 06:35:24 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
World Collide room three with Angels full aggro was just starting to break tank on a Drake that had ~610 in EFT and that room is one of the most annoying, as it OFTEN goes full-aggro because of where you warp in.


That's where a battleship with MJD comes in handy. Warp in, pull the whole aggro, jump 100 km out, orbit at 100km, proceed to nuke. Angels can't hit you out to that distance and by the time they close in on you, you'll have MJD ready. You can keep bunnyhopping around until you clean them up and take practically no damage. Bonus points if you run a missile ship, since it does virtually the same damage regardless of distance :D
Cal Stantson
17eme Chasseurs a Cheval
#18 - 2013-01-30 08:34:28 UTC
If you have an AB, pull range, and know the missions well you don't need more than 200ish DPS tank. With a large shield EHP it should be even easier.