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A cruiser for complexes.
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Dark Lightstrong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-25 21:36:21 UTC
Hello!


I am not quite sure what cruiser should I get for doing 3/10 and 4/10 complexes. What would be the most efficient. So after thinking for a few days what to train for I've concluded that... I have no idea nor do I have enough knowledge to get to the answer by myself. All the threads I've found about it are way too old.

So yea, would anyone please help me with the decision? I'm training a new character for that and so far I had no idea what to train for and I only trained engineering, electronics and mechanics skills up a bit.

I'm very low on skills, isk isn't a very big problem. Nothing a few days mining can't solve :)


Oh and please keep in mind a few things:
- I don't like drone boats.
- I don't want to fly a Caracal
- I will be going around whole EVE universe :)
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#2 - 2013-01-25 22:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
If you are so low skilled I would suggest something that can speed tank well, i.e. Minmatar.

Depending on your budget, Stabber Fleet issue would probably be best. With a view of upgrading to Cynabal in the future possibly. But keep in mind that until you've skilled up decent fitting, gunnery and navigation skills, and some form of tanking ability, you won't be doing 4/10s in anything resembling 'efficient' manner, and in some plexes won't actually have enough DPS to kill the overseer.

You should be fine in 3/10s, althought they will also take a while (dozens of frigs to kill, except the Sansha one which is shorter, but requires a bit better tank).

Good news is there is no scrambliing in any of them.

Just don't be surprised if a T3 or HAC warps in while you are slowly working a plex, clears it in 5-6 min and makes away with "your" loot. Them Tengus are *everywhere* Shocked.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-01-26 04:07:06 UTC
3/10 is made for cruisers.

4/10 is made for bc. If you want to do it in cruiser, get something better than t1 cruiser. Fleet Stabber is good first step since you get something better than t1 and you can choose ammo damage as needed.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Zoltan Lazar
#4 - 2013-01-26 07:07:22 UTC
Are you looking for an all in one scanning + running ship, or just running?

SFI is a good bet for either. Omen is very nice nowadays, lasers are kind of damage limited but the range of beams is perfect for most of these sites.

You're really going to want a BC for 4/10s, but they're all possible in a cruiser.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-01-26 11:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Sentry vexor can do them all easily - just pick up your drones mwd - reposition once or twice (or 3 or 4 times if you lack SP or its the angel one). One imagines a ranged fit for all races can do it.
Elementosarusrex
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-28 10:02:02 UTC
I prefer destroyers. faster, more high's, smaller... Drones make everything go pretty fast.
Dark Lightstrong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-28 14:50:57 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Sentry vexor can do them all easily - just pick up your drones mwd - reposition once or twice (or 3 or 4 times if you lack SP or its the angel one). One imagines a ranged fit for all races can do it.



How exactly do sentries work? I have changed my mind about droneships and fit a vexor. I still need Drone Interfacing to 3 to train up sentries.

What would a good droneship be?


With the last change to AI, concerning drones, only elite frigates and cruisers target your small drones so it's much easier.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-28 15:31:19 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Sentry vexor can do them all easily - just pick up your drones mwd - reposition once or twice (or 3 or 4 times if you lack SP or its the angel one). One imagines a ranged fit for all races can do it.


If you want to use sentry drones, the navy vexor probably is the way to go. The 100/100 bw/m3 of the navy issue seems better suited for sentries, then the 75/125 bw/m3 of the standard version. I personally prefer the standard version vexor with standard drones, bringing 2 heavy, 5 medium, 5 light.

When running a setup without spare drones, it might be worth it to use navy issue drones. They cost more and do a little less dps, but they have a lot more ehp then the tech version and better tracking.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#9 - 2013-01-28 15:34:00 UTC
Dark Lightstrong wrote:

What would a good droneship be?


On Gallente side, Navy Vexor is a significant improvement on Vexor, then you can skill up for Ishtar (HAC) or Gila (needs Gallente and Caldari cruiser) for some serious PvE pwnage.

Amarr have some decent drone boats too but I wouldn't know enough about them to recommend.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-28 15:35:17 UTC
Dark Lightstrong wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Sentry vexor can do them all easily - just pick up your drones mwd - reposition once or twice (or 3 or 4 times if you lack SP or its the angel one). One imagines a ranged fit for all races can do it.
How exactly do sentries work?


Sentry drones, are stationary ranged drones. They are comparable to heavy drones in dps, and use the same bandwidth and drone bay space as heavy drones.

The advantage of using sentry drones is that they don't need to fly to the target to apply dps, the disadvantage is they they can't move and remain where you deploy them until you pick them up.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-28 15:46:54 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
On Gallente side, Navy Vexor is a significant improvement on Vexor ...


It is better if you go for sentry drones, because it can deploy 4 heavy compared to the 3 of the standard version. Besides the 25 extra bandwidth it has one extra low-slot which makes it easy to fit it with a drone damage upgrade, and it has more armor.

The disadvantage is the 25 m3 less drone bay space, reduced speed, 125 less power grind, and one less mid-slot.

After the retribution change to cruiser i don't think the difference is as significant as before retribution.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#12 - 2013-01-28 15:57:34 UTC
It also has more shield buffer, but yeah, first thing I look for in a ship is DPS and that extra bandwith + drone dmage mod make a lot of difference.

TBH though I haven't flown one in ages, so you probably know better.

cheers.
Dark Lightstrong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-28 16:33:22 UTC
Thank you everyone for your help. Seems like my road for a few months ahead is already laid out. Vexor -> Navy Issue Vexor and maybe later on Ishtar :)
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#14 - 2013-01-28 20:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
Just on a final note, you will likely find Gila is a lot easier to get into. It takes a while to level up required skills for Isthar (and you will want HACs to level 5 to get the most out of it) ,and even longer to be able to fit it well. Ishtar is notorious for fitting problems due to its low CPU, which drone mods and tanking mods take up a lot of.

Gila is a bit more expensive, but you get 400m3 drone bay right away, damage is the same or better, and tank wise there's also not that much difference (and it shouldn't matter for the intended use anyway).

The only issue is Gila prefers shield tanking, but once you've trained your shield skills a bit, you will find the ability to fit more damage mods is a nice bonus.

Both of these ships are mighty fine, though.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#15 - 2013-01-29 00:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
dexington wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Sentry vexor can do them all easily - just pick up your drones mwd - reposition once or twice (or 3 or 4 times if you lack SP or its the angel one). One imagines a ranged fit for all races can do it.


If you want to use sentry drones, the navy vexor probably is the way to go. The 100/100 bw/m3 of the navy issue seems better suited for sentries, then the 75/125 bw/m3 of the standard version. I personally prefer the standard version vexor with standard drones, bringing 2 heavy, 5 medium, 5 light.

When running a setup without spare drones, it might be worth it to use navy issue drones. They cost more and do a little less dps, but they have a lot more ehp then the tech version and better tracking.


I've tried all 3 fits - mobile with blasters, mobile with rails and sentries with rails, and imo sentries with rails is best if the 4/10s is being done. Mul-zatah hopeless with mobile drones, angel excavator dangerous to close on (pocket dps too high), and dangerous to be kite with mobile drones (drone loss). Afaik the first pocket of GSO is locked until everything is dead, and the cruisers will orbit apart, which makes it hugely faster to be using sentries, and painful to watch ogres crawling between them or mwd between them to apply blasters.

mobile + blasters works in serp phi, because you get under the tracking of the overseer and you tend to outrun the slow short ranged serp bc's, ie pocket dps doesn't apply as well as the other encounters - still have to overheat tank and guns, where as just sniping him from beacon with sentries is trivial.
Surama Badasaz
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#16 - 2013-01-29 21:30:43 UTC
You can do all the HS sites in 2 ships,first thing 2/10(good also) -in a T1 destroyer well fitted with specific resists.and 3/10 and 4/10 can be made in a Myrmidon because u can come up with an incredible tank.

Complex Level

1/10 Frigates
2/10 Frigates, Destroyers
3/10 Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
4/10 Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
5/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
6/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
7/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
8/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
9/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
10/10 Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Frigates, Destroyers
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-01-29 22:01:08 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
3/10 is made for cruisers.

4/10 is made for bc. If you want to do it in cruiser, get something better than t1 cruiser. Fleet Stabber is good first step since you get something better than t1 and you can choose ammo damage as needed.


laughed a lot at this
Dark Lightstrong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-01-30 04:39:41 UTC
Doing 3/10 and 4/10 in a Vexor right now. I can breeze through 3/10, but 4/10 takes much more time due to my low skills. Am still 2 days away from sentries so I use a mix of normal and faction drones right now.
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-04 14:50:13 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
3/10 is made for cruisers.

4/10 is made for bc. If you want to do it in cruiser, get something better than t1 cruiser. Fleet Stabber is good first step since you get something better than t1 and you can choose ammo damage as needed.


I am in a similar situation, running low-sec sites in minmatar space. Mostly doing radar/magnetrons, but I also try to do the occasional combat site if they're not too tough.

I used a shield buffer tank Rupture with AC's and T1 drones in the past, and am now using my first Stabber. Also shield buffer fit + AC's. I really like the Stabber, and am looking to upgrade to a SFI. However, I can't really seem to find a decent setup for this (I use 1 high for Salvager and 1 mid for codebreaker/analyzer [the mid is another shield hardener if I do combat sites]).

Anyone knows any decent setup for this? I cant' realy seem to find a decent "PvE" SFI setup on battleclinic.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-04 14:58:44 UTC
Jonas Staal wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
3/10 is made for cruisers.

4/10 is made for bc. If you want to do it in cruiser, get something better than t1 cruiser. Fleet Stabber is good first step since you get something better than t1 and you can choose ammo damage as needed.


I am in a similar situation, running low-sec sites in minmatar space. Mostly doing radar/magnetrons, but I also try to do the occasional combat site if they're not too tough.

I used a shield buffer tank Rupture with AC's and T1 drones in the past, and am now using my first Stabber. Also shield buffer fit + AC's. I really like the Stabber, and am looking to upgrade to a SFI. However, I can't really seem to find a decent setup for this (I use 1 high for Salvager and 1 mid for codebreaker/analyzer [the mid is another shield hardener if I do combat sites]).

Anyone knows any decent setup for this? I cant' realy seem to find a decent "PvE" SFI setup on battleclinic.


I would probably go for a battlecruiser, they cost a little more but the extra hi/mid slots makes fitting a lot easier.

If you fly around with ab/mwd/guns/salvager/probe launcher/analyzer/code breaker/etc in the cargo hold you can switch modules as needed, and pretty much use the same ship for everything. If you can't afford a battlecruiser, you can do the same with a cruiser.

the biggest downside, is that unless you have perfect probe skills you probably can't scan down all sites. Using a covert ops for scanning, and returning in a combat fitted ship is easier.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
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