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Salvage and wreck 'blue'ing' - flip the mechanics (tractor beam/Noctis buff)
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Isoroku Yasukawa
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1 - 2013-01-27 11:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Isoroku Yasukawa
To keep it short and simple:

Is it worth considering an automatic mechanic? A lot of people really don't care about wrecks at all, but, unless they care enough to formally abandon ("blue") them, it hampers the salvage tools of the trade (i.e. tractor beams + Noctis).

I wonder if salvaging as a profession could be helped by one of the following:

1. "Auto-blue'd" after warping off grid

2. "Auto-blue'd" after set time period (..."CONCORD space-lane regulation XYZ specifies that after a period of XX, said wreckage will be free and fair..." e.t.c e.t.c) - might tap into the mechanics/code that dictate when stuff goes pop?

3. Yellow wrecks could be tractor-beamed (probably more controversial - could cause some hilarity)

4. "Blue" by default - have to claim ownership and flag as "yellow" to prevent others tractor-beaming

Discuss
Pearl Canopus
#2 - 2013-01-28 17:18:24 UTC
Isoroku Yasukawa wrote:
...
1. "Auto-blue'd" after warping off grid

2. "Auto-blue'd" after set time period (..."CONCORD space-lane regulation XYZ specifies that after a period of XX, said wreckage will be free and fair..." e.t.c e.t.c) - might tap into the mechanics/code that dictate when stuff goes pop?

3. Yellow wrecks could be tractor-beamed (probably more controversial - could cause some hilarity)

4. "Blue" by default - have to claim ownership and flag as "yellow" to prevent others tractor-beaming...
I support ideas 2., 3. an 4. in general. Starting tractoring yellow marked wracks after they have been marked may rise a suspect flag.

But... Nothing schould be disallowed by default except you have choosen the green button.
Because it's allowed to salvage yellow marked wrecks it also should be allowed to tractoring them without beeing marked suspect. But bumping ships also rise no suspect flag.

Warping offgrid it's no reason to mark the wrecks blue. Maybe the pilot is entering another salvaging ship and returns. Wrecks might be marked blue automatically, if they are kept untouched one hour or longer.

My favorite is marking them blue after an amount of time or manually, while wrecks are tractoring in yellow state.
Isoroku Yasukawa
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2013-01-28 17:59:47 UTC
I was thinking implementation-wise, #4 would be the most straightforward as it simply takes the existing mechanics and reverses the 'rules'.

I realise this is probably not a big deal for most, but tractor beams are quite gimped by the whole wreck 'ownership' thing at the moment, and salvaging is supposed to be a viable profession in it's own right.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#4 - 2013-01-28 19:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Isoroku Yasukawa wrote:
To keep it short and simple:

Is it worth considering an automatic mechanic? A lot of people really don't care about wrecks at all, but, unless they care enough to formally abandon ("blue") them, it hampers the salvage tools of the trade (i.e. tractor beams + Noctis).

I wonder if salvaging as a profession could be helped by one of the following:

1. "Auto-blue'd" after warping off grid

2. "Auto-blue'd" after set time period (..."CONCORD space-lane regulation XYZ specifies that after a period of XX, said wreckage will be free and fair..." e.t.c e.t.c) - might tap into the mechanics/code that dictate when stuff goes pop?

3. Yellow wrecks could be tractor-beamed (probably more controversial - could cause some hilarity)

4. "Blue" by default - have to claim ownership and flag as "yellow" to prevent others tractor-beaming

Discuss

I can see having options 1, 2 and 4 be things I could set to happen by default. That is check boxes I can use to specify that whenever I warp away from wrecks they go blue, or are created blue by default, or go blue after a set time.

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Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
#5 - 2013-01-29 00:51:12 UTC
Option 2 by default is the best way to go.

Option 1 is too brutal to whomever is the "rightful" owner of the wreck.

Option 3 has too much griefing potential to be implemented, this has been mentioned regularly since Salvaging was introduced all those years ago, and shot every time on those grounds.

Option 4 is not only also too brutal to the "rightful" owner of the wreck, but also too much of a hassle for both the player and the server.

Option 2 is the way to go, but make it go blue when there is a VERY SHORT time remaining, like 15 minutes or so.
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2013-01-29 03:55:14 UTC
What problem is this designed to solve? Ninja looters not liking the suspect flag? Ninja salvagers not liking boating from wreck to wreck? Doesn't seem worth the time to change the code for that.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Isoroku Yasukawa
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2013-01-30 18:42:30 UTC
The problem is that tractor beams, and by extension the Noctis are largely worthless for bulk salvaging due to the wreck mechanics.

Do not confuse this with 'ninja looting' it has nothing to do with that - salvaging is supposed to be a viable profession in its own right, but right now there is no point to the Noctis (the point of which, is 'bulk salvaging') over a destroyer with 8x salvagers and salvage drones.

These are relatively simple mechanics changes that would have a very positive impact on the salvage profession, one of which even makes more sense from a pure ‘RP’ perspective (#2).
Pearl Canopus
#8 - 2013-01-31 13:38:02 UTC
Zaknussem wrote:
Option 3 has too much griefing potential to be implemented, this has been mentioned regularly since Salvaging was introduced all those years ago, and shot every time on those grounds.
I do not agree with this. It's allowed to salvage yellow wrecks already. So the tractoring would extend this right in a right way.
Maybe there must be an option to lock a wreck, if you are just salvaging. Nobody can put the wreck out of your range. -> First come first serve.

Looting a foreign wreck will mark you aggro. This option will be kept.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-31 14:10:19 UTC
Isoroku Yasukawa wrote:
The problem is that tractor beams, and by extension the Noctis are largely worthless for bulk NINJA salvaging due to the wreck mechanics.

Do not confuse this with 'ninja looting' it has nothing to do with that - salvaging is supposed to be a viable profession in its own right, but right now there is no point to the Noctis (the point of which, is 'bulk salvaging') over a destroyer with 8x salvagers and salvage drones.

These are relatively simple mechanics changes that would have a very positive impact on the salvage profession, one of which even makes more sense from a pure ‘RP’ perspective (#2).


Fixed that for you. And yes salvaging is a mini profession. Tractor beaming is not.

I don't see the issue here, other than laziness. If the wrecks are yours there is no problem. If you are salvaging for someone else, they can blue the loot for you so you can tractor and salvage.

If the wrecks are not yours you can go salvage them the hard way.
Isoroku Yasukawa
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2013-02-01 11:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Isoroku Yasukawa
How is it 'ninja slavaging' if no-one else is there, because they left the wrecks?... (it isn't - try reading again*)

There are literally fields of wreckage left because the 'owners' don't want to bother salvaging them and the designed tool for the job (Noctis) is pretty much useless to the task because of the wreck mechanics.

This tweak makes the designed salvaging tool fit for purpose.

* "Salvage" - "the rescue and use of any found or discarded material."