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Mining Doubt

Author
Max Damaskinus
GERDAU S.A.
#1 - 2013-01-18 16:00:10 UTC
Hi guys

I just have one simple doubt:

is there a way to automatically change the mine strips from my Retriever to all the locked target?

for example:

i have 4 asteroid target. both my stripers are mining the target 1. what i want is, that when the asteroid 1 is finished, both stripers go directly to the second target and so on.

is that possible?
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#2 - 2013-01-18 16:08:07 UTC
NO,
This is not possible with current game mechanics. That would enable more effective AFK mining. I am sure there are scripts you could run to do that for you, but I believe that would be against the rules. If you want that go ice mining, then the rocks never pop.

There is a reason why ore mining is way more isk/hr than ice mining. Ice mining can be done AFK for 15-20 minutes at a time, while ore mining can go only if you are lucky and in a belt with large rocks 2-3 cycles. The point of the game mechanics is to make AFK play more difficult.
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-18 16:09:56 UTC
Mining is a very engaging activity. Of course it's only natural that it leaves its pursuers wondering how some of that clickfest attached to mining can be automated.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.

Max Damaskinus
GERDAU S.A.
#4 - 2013-01-18 16:13:14 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
NO,
This is not possible with current game mechanics. That would enable more effective AFK mining. I am sure there are scripts you could run to do that for you, but I believe that would be against the rules. If you want that go ice mining, then the rocks never pop.

There is a reason why ore mining is way more isk/hr than ice mining. Ice mining can be done AFK for 15-20 minutes at a time, while ore mining can go only if you are lucky and in a belt with large rocks 2-3 cycles. The point of the game mechanics is to make AFK play more difficult.


Thanks for the clarification
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2013-01-18 18:56:03 UTC
Max Damaskinus wrote:
i have 4 asteroid target. both my stripers are mining the target 1. what i want is, that when the asteroid 1 is finished, both stripers go directly to the second target and so on.

is that possible?


You need a macro for that, which would be in violation of the EULA. CCP has tools in place to detect macro use, so-called "botting" (when a robot program plays the game for you), and they use strongly punitive measures against macro users. And rightly so.

Don't do it.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#6 - 2013-01-18 19:01:11 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
Mining is a very engaging activity. Of course it's only natural that it leaves its pursuers wondering how some of that clickfest attached to mining can be automated.


Indeed, the mining mechanics are so simplistic and intellectually unengaging that terms like "stupidly bad game design" are warranted. Lots of people mine semi-AFK, set the strippers to cycle, then alt+tab out of the game, or resume watching a recorded TV show, then thenreturn their attention to the computer only when they hear the voice cue telling them that a stripper has popped a roid and needs to be set onto a new target (I've been doing this so much, you'll notice, that I can no longer remember exactly what words the voice cue contains).

It is almost certainly impossible to make mining as engaging and fascinating as PVE or PVP is, without making it into an actually combat-like process (and doing exactly that would deter a lot of miners), but over the years there have been lots of proposals for things CCP can do to at least make mining slightly less boring.

Doing so will also make life harder for botters (much harder, and permanently harder, unlike an interface change such as the Inventory change last year), and will also reduce the incidence of semi-AFK mining, both of these will serve to drive up mineral prices, thereby making mining a somewhat more attractive profession, in terms of ISK-per-hour, than it is now.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2013-01-19 02:55:10 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Max Damaskinus wrote:
i have 4 asteroid target. both my stripers are mining the target 1. what i want is, that when the asteroid 1 is finished, both stripers go directly to the second target and so on.

is that possible?


You need a macro for that, which would be in violation of the EULA. CCP has tools in place to detect macro use, so-called "botting" (when a robot program plays the game for you), and they use strongly punitive measures against macro users. And rightly so.

Don't do it.


CCP is actually perfectly fine with Macros and programs that push N buttons when you push one (otherwise many keyboards would be banned), so long as it all happens at once (ISBoxer and similar multiboxing programs fall in this category).

It's programs that automate gameplay that are banned (push a button and the program pushes a button now, again in 5 minutes, again 5 minutes later, etc).

So, as long as you are at the keyboard pressing F1, it's perfectly fine to have a program tell EVE that you pressed both F1 and F2 at the same time.


FakeEdit:
Uh, now that I'm re-reading the OP, he does seem to be looking for automated gameplay. Which is botting, so you're right, Salpad.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#8 - 2013-01-21 14:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
RubyPorto wrote:


CCP is actually perfectly fine with Macros and programs that push N buttons when you push one (otherwise many keyboards would be banned), so long as it all happens at once (ISBoxer and similar multiboxing programs fall in this category).

It's programs that automate gameplay that are banned (push a button and the program pushes a button now, again in 5 minutes, again 5 minutes later, etc).

Um That is exactly what a Macro does. You program it to hit button "A" , then pause XX seconds, Hit button "B", pause XX seconds, Hit button "C", pause XX seconds, then repeat.

A multi box program such as ISBoxer is an emulator that copies your keyboard actions across multiple instances/windows. I expect the only reason a program like isk boxer is allowed is that it is not used by many players, and those who do use it, use it to run many accounts they could not run in any other way. For example that guy that was involved in the "incident" with the Mittani had 75 accounts he used for mining. He used a multi box program, that if CCP decided was a violation would cost them 75 subscriptions.

Not many players use these programs and the ones that do have enough accounts for CCP to not want them to quit.

RubyPorto wrote:
So, as long as you are at the keyboard pressing F1, it's perfectly fine to have a program tell EVE that you pressed both F1 and F2 at the same time.


Yes, some keyboards have integrated macro's that allow you to program key sequences to a single button. those are fine. It is the ones that allow you to add time delay and repetition to the sequence that makes it a violation. A true bot macro is more than just an automated key sequence, it is a sequence that activates certain buttons at given intervals, and can be looped to repeat indefinitely.

Games like SWG actually had an in game system for programing marco's. It seemed odd to me that any game would integrate a system that made AFK activity not only easier to do, but highly effective. Buff bots, farming bots, and survey bots were all very common in SWG.

There were many players in SWG that used marcos for PVP. They would program their combat abilities to automate in a specific order, including delay for skill cooldowns. Then once activated they could devote there full attention to circle strafing and running around to avoid getting hit. As far as I am concerned macro's did as much damage to SWG as the NGE conversion.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2013-01-21 20:04:58 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Um That is exactly what a Macro does. You program it to hit button "A" , then pause XX seconds, Hit button "B", pause XX seconds, Hit button "C", pause XX seconds, then repeat.


And yet in your next paragraph you explain that keyboard macros are fine. A macro that does no temporal shifting is fine, whether bound to the keyboard or not. Not all macros include the "pause" that makes it against the rules to use.
A pseudocode macro that includes no time shifting or repetition:
Macro (bound to F1) > Hit Buttons F1-F8 > End

Quote:
A multi box program such as ISBoxer is an emulator that copies your keyboard actions across multiple instances/windows. I expect the only reason a program like isk boxer is allowed is that it is not used by many players, and those who do use it, use it to run many accounts they could not run in any other way. For example that guy that was involved in the "incident" with the Mittani had 75 accounts he used for mining. He used a multi box program, that if CCP decided was a violation would cost them 75 subscriptions.

Not many players use these programs and the ones that do have enough accounts for CCP to not want them to quit.


Actually, CCP whitelisted them after a multiboxer proved that he could emulate the effects of using ISBoxer through hardware.
https://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/oldrigs

Quote:
Yes, some keyboards have integrated macro's that allow you to program key sequences to a single button. those are fine. It is the ones that allow you to add time delay and repetition to the sequence that makes it a violation. A true bot macro is more than just an automated key sequence, it is a sequence that activates certain buttons at given intervals, and can be looped to repeat indefinitely..


Exactly what I said. Time shifting/repetition = bad, multiple simultaneous commands for 1 button press = fine.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon