Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What's going to happen with tier 3s?

Also it doesn't make any sense that the Drake and Ferox have smaller signatures than the Brutix and Myrmidon. We all know that ship signature is heavily influenced by shield size, the caldari ships have bigger shields (as they should) but have smaller signatures. Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but this doesn't seem right.

Well, lets see, there is the million EHP Damnation - entirely passive tank, compared to the Vulture which has to overload its hardeners to reach at best, 400,000 EHP.

Given the way the shield recharge works - it only hits peak recharge around 25%, and only offers about say, a 100-150 at most in terms of actual hp back a second, then yeah, of course, 600,000 EHP less and a far larger signature is a bonus for us! lol

Lets not even talk about the difference for Titan's overall EHP when it comes to shields, where the numbers are even more painful for shield pilots.

Fair call. But the Damnation doesn't need to go above T2 to completely own in the Command Ship department.

[Damnation, T2 Damnation]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Hobgoblin II x5

[Vulture, T2 Vulture]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Hobgoblin II x5

Notes: The reason you need a small cap booster on both fits - is that the best way to disable a command ships gang links is to cap drain it. This helps negate this issue, and is considered best practice as a lack of gang links is generally considered, a bad thing.

So, the Damnation with slaves hits: 556,093 EHP with a signature of 265

The Vulture with halo set (The best thing currently for a shield buffer fleet fit like this) hits: 214,547 with a signature of 291

Spot the difference?

Now, the passive recharge which, you think makes the Vulture somehow awesome. Well again - its not constant - it is only that figure around 25% - comes in at 594 a second.

This equates to, 35640 over a minute - if - and somehow magically - the enemy keeps it at 25% perfectly, for 10 minutes - then... finally, you could argue about how awesome that somehow the Vulture is better.

When you reach titan level, the difference can be as much as 20 million EHP between say, the Erebus, and the Leviathan when being boosted.

And agreed, passive shield recharge is a factor, albeit nowhere near as powerful as you make out. But it would be very easy for CCP to release a shield EHP implant set, that also nerfed shield recharge time. Easy.

But shields should always have less EHP than Armor, but not quite as dramatic a difference as this.

The reason is that the armor tanks only activate at the end of the cycle, rather than shields that activate at the start. Which is a factor in logistics backed fights.

The calls for a buffer implant for shields is an entirely fair one, and one of the biggest imbalances in the current game.

Anyway. I am on the test server and will be posting some numbers for the Ferox in all its glory lol compared to say, the Prophecy.

Compared two ships with 6 possible tank slots, while reducing one's to five, instead of saying "it's dependent on cap transfer".

Then you bring in slave set (worth more than the ship I believe) for T2 fits, knowing shield has nothing similar.

And you compare a ship with two tanking bonuses to another that has only one.

I'm not saying the Vulture doesn't need help, hell even without the first two I mentioned, the Damnation still has a good 50% more EHP on a fit I just threw together from yours, and I didn't even put T2 plates on it!

Nor that Buffer Armor doesn't have (a lot?) more things going for it.

Then again... notice how that 50% more EHP is somewhat like as much armor the Damnation gets from Command Ships skill?

170 ms on the Damnation, 175 ms on the Vulture. I reckon that 5 ms might swing in the Vultures favour instead of the extra EHP

I just love the tears when the math doesn't lie.

But lets get back on Topic. The battlecruiser changes V1.

The Prophecy. Or as we all know it, the 'Flying Turkey'.

All it needed before was some basting and a nice bit of stuffing. It's got both.

Buffer fit: 83,790 EHP with a single plate - 72+ resists across the board, Explosive and Kinetic in the 80's and ability to overload.

This is not all tank btw, the low slots include 2 T2 Drone Damage modules, given that is the ships bonus etc.

I've plopped for the HAM version fit here as well, which gives it 154 DPS from the missiles 421 from the DPS with 3 Ogres, Aka just like the Myrmiddon.

It has a MWD

It has a Web

It has a Target Painter

It has a Scrambler

And...

It has a Medium Cap Drain

With all this on? It lasts 2:20 minutes. That includes the MWD folks. Its cap stable with the cap drain ON and the MWD off.

It also can pack ECM drones, medium drones, or a spare set of Ogres.

And you guys are giving me grief? About a 50,000 EHP fit Ferox that has a Scram on it? And does the same DPS and needs a Reactor Control II module to actually fit the guns it uses? And a cap that lasts the same amount with the MWD on?

And you're saying the Ferox would be over powered with another mid slot?

What are you chaps smoking? Please pass it along so I can see rainbows and fairies dancing around the shield recharge rate.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt09ws_eduard-khil-trololo-song-official-video-yyyyyy-yyyy-yyyyyyy-yyyyyyyyyyy-yyyyy_music#.UPwSrSegPyo

Final Ferox numbers incoming...

Okay, for me, this is what I can get out of the Ferox. I don't have the resists trained to V only IV, so actual numbers will be a tiny amount higher, but that goes for the Prophecy as well as the Ferox numbers I've given.

DPS:

The Ferox fit is with 7 Heavy Neutron Blasters, aka the best range and DPS blaster available for the Ferox.

Gun DPS with Void in a 5km optimal, 8km fall off is 650 dps, albeit with a tracking penalty.

With Null you're getting 18km optimal, 9.5 fall off, and 465 dps, again with a tracking penalty.

Drones add another 99 DPS.

Null ammo then, is definitely the way to go, because the ship really doesn't have the capacitor to use the MWD for long. For best damage, you're going to want to scoot around the battlefield getting into optimal ranges with your best damage ammo of course, and the Ferox with an Invul and Scram on, can do this for 2:50 seconds.

There isn't the powergrid to fit a Medium Cap booster, so we'll have to go with a Small. This fixes the cap issue and helps keep the tank up against a cap drainer if lucky. This fixes the capacitor issue however.

EHP then, because an active tank would be both difficult, and to get any real numbers out of it, a 500m set of implants and blue pill boosters, and ideally... a Vulture or Tengu tagging along ;) You could always go for newly nerfed Ancillary Shield Boosters and hope that 60 seconds isn't as long a time to reload as you imagine.

56,118 EHP

Unlike the Prophecy, none of the resists are in the 60's and 70's. None hit over 80 like the Prophecy with its Kinetic and Explosive resists.

If you want to risk the Capacitor issues and hope you're not running around after stuff, then you can fit a second LSE, but only a Meta 4 one. The fitting is just a tiny bit short of fitting a better T2.

This takes the EHP up to:

67.138 EHP

Or, about 20% less than the Prophecy. That is quite a jump down.

And last but not least, the signatures and speeds:

Prophecy with the Experimental MWD is 893 ms

The Ferox with the same MWD is 1061

Signature of the Ferox with 1 LSE is around 350.

With two 2 LSE: its going to be around 400.

The Prophecy comes in at 270.

And the Ferox doesn't have the Cap stable Cap Drain, Web, Point and Target Painter. Admittedly, it does have instant damage guns like and isn't reliant on drones travelling speed.

But in a fist fight, which is what both of these ships are designed to do, there will be only one winner. The Ferox will be webbed, scrammed, target painted (Because its signature needs it right?) and cap drained, so it can't shoot, can't tank and eaten alive by drones.

So, please, pretty please CCP Fozzie. More Powergrid to fit the weapons it flys with and +1 midslot. Lose the new lowslot.

Otherwise, the Ferox is basically just a waste of ISK.

What happens to that Prophecy when Vulture pilot brings in 10 Maels?

"If you have a fair fight in EVE you're doing something wrong."

Wow Good Job Messing Up my game play for an other 2 month of retraining to be able to use Either Hurricaine or Cyclone Since im Gun Shield now i cant use the cyclone and cant use the Huricaine aswell

at least if your gona make the cyclone a missile boat make it a real one and remove all gun slot for more missile

Ps i was already prefering to stay in my rupture than moving to the cyclone now im stuck in it not by choice but cause of the messup your planning