Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think you meant 'Brutix' rather than 'Ferox'.

Also, adding armour or shield hp is only really good for PvP, where something like a resist bonus and in certain situations active rep bonus are useful in both PvP and PvE. Just a hp bonus isn't going to leave either ship useful for anything but solo and small gang PvP. As for the MWD bonus, again, limited PvP use, negligible use for anything else.

While I was 99% off-topic troll replying in that post (there are no "best" ships in the whole game) I think CCP has done great job balancing races and ships, and this has resulted in massive explosion of variety on the battlefield. I see all races represented equally in lowsec and wormholes, meaning pilots are able to fly the ships that they like and not be disadvantaged. In my case I fly only Gallente and I often feel like I have the ideal tool for the job in solo and small gang situations. This might not be the case in large fleets, but I don't know **** about that scene and can't comment much on it.

That said, I'm honestly not sure how balanced the game would be if Gallente ships would be as viable in large 0.0 fleets as they are in small ones.

I see no issues fitting ships with whatever tank that works for the fit.

@ Jerick

5% resist bonus is more universal, it helps with buffer and a bit with active tanking, rep bonus helps only when you have reppers fitted. This is the discussion, some see this as an issue. Rep and res bonuses yield about equal results on single repper fits, but rep bonus pulls ahead big time on multirepper setups, and even more when you add heat, drugs and links.

It's a simple fact- every additional armor repper is bonused, whereas resists bonus still just cuts the same amount of incoming damage, no matter how many reppers you run. Rep bonus gives you more mileage out of Exile (+rep amount) and heat (-rep time).

Buffer is very close to irrelevant when running active tanks in practice, your survival depends on the amount of repaired damage. Active armor has a narrow zone of viability, if incoming damage approaches the numbers where unplated armor EHP differences start to matter before you get rep cycles in, you're hosed.

Repping a big chunk of damage in once repper cycle is more advantageous than receiving a little bit less damage and repping a lot less. Resist -bonuses triple repper is worse than rep-bonused.

This is why I prefer to keep the bonus as rep amount, but would like to see it buffed up to 10% in order to keep up with the current typical DPS in solo and small gang engagements, which has steadily increased in the past years. Would 5% resist bonus make these Gallente BCs viable for fleets? I doubt, their weapon systems are a bigger issue.

I like variation between ships, active tank bonuses support this.

To much micromanagment discussion.

Define three roles.
a) Tanky BC with PvE direction, Myrmidion, new Prophecy....
b) agile, high dps, Naga, Tornado....
c) ?

I would go for a double-damage bonus with 7x turret for variant C.
Less agility then the b-type BCs, but also the smallest signature of the BCs.
Aggressive, high DPS ships with mediocre tank and not to good at range. Ships for roamings, enough firepower to kill the promised small scale targets in 0.0.
Ships that go for Admiral Nelsons quote: " No captain can do very wrong by laying his ship side to side with his enemy".
Group C would be, Harbinger, Brutix, Drake and Hurricane.

Ferrox:
Change to Missiles. To much Hybrid T1 ships for Caldari. Nighthawk that follows up is also an Missile boat. We need for progression far more missile verability. In the Frig/Destroyer section are a bunch of missile boats, but for the 5x T1 BC/BS are only two.

The percieved imbalance isn't caused by the Ferox, it's caused by the Naga. Turning the Ferox into a missile boat would leave Caldari pilots with zero sensible Caldari options for a battlecruiser fitting medium turrets.

Yes, in theory you could use a Naga as a medium turret platform, but in practice you would be defeating the purpose of the ship entirely.

How about a compromise.

Give the Ferox a choice of turrets or launchers, give the Drake a range bonus instead of resists. Keeping the optimal bonus just gives it similar options to now.

I have suggested the Drake change and argued against it, but if the Ferox could fill the gap for a brawler, it would settle a lot of issues.

After all, Caldari are supposed to be the missile faction, while it seems at least half their ships use hybrids.

Yeah I know you enough (Tanya/Lyn] to know you were like trolling a little bit, just wanted to point out some obvious stuff since you left the door opened.

In fact I can perfectly agree with you in this simple way: specific bonused WH's and situations like station/gate camping and very small engagements Gallente have a lot going for them, often shield tanked which is my main issue.

However if you remember my posting with my previous forum troll alts you know my feelings.
I just can't accept Gallente ships shouldn't be useful in a larger spectrum of engagements and players choices. The game play is far too restrictive, while this isn't a problem when you have the choice like I do because I've understood my best path was to train every single race ships up to command ships, it's a huge barrier for newer players.

The new player has to commit to this game for about 1 year at least to get those core elite certificates to the top so he can get the best out of his Gallente ships fittings, meaning his specialization is not that worthy because he does not have the choice of whatever aspect in the game but a very limited engagement type.

The newbie around came because he has heard about gigantic fleet fights with focking space ships !! -Why in hell can't he fly his stupid space potato in fleets??-because it's just plain crap?
It's not his fault, it's not even other players advice trolling comments or advices fault, it's only because game mechanics around those ships are bad, awful, and have no sense for a game claiming from the beginning 'large fleet fights' and 'do whatever you want' or 'your actions have an impact'.
I want this to change, I want that each and every single Gallente pilot has the choice and the same important role every other ship or race in the game can bring without having to pass by the obvious step ranis/lachesis/oneiros/proteus.
I want more, I want that awful noob to get in his fleet with his Mega and actually feel his worth of something, have the feeling he participated to something greater and his actions HAD positive effects on the fight outcome.

So, yep I'm not satisfied and will never be as long as every single pilot in this game and whatever race he chooses to fly means he's choosing restrictive game play and area of this game, just because it's not Eve'ish and totaly not "sandbox"

How does that even work? Why suggest a T1 BC to be a stepping stone between an AF and a HAC? Given that the Damnation is going to be a missile boat and will be the next step for the Khanid line, thats the point of pregression.

As it is, the Prophecy could have some of the most versatile abilities of all the T1 BC's. Its got the slot layout to achieve so many things.

I love my missiles, and I will be flying both HAM and HML fits with it, but I will also be testing a Blaster fit with a TD and a solid buffer tank on my PvP alt. Or maybe drop the TD and go for double web and watch the target melt under CN antimatter and Hammerhead II's...

As the proph is right now, it is already is quite versatile. All it really needs is the 4th mid, a bit more cpu, and maybe at least a 50M3 drone bay

The changes, while tempting, aren't really any better with the loss of the highs and addition of the second weapon type in such strong force. Also, while the extra low is nice, the Proph already has enough.

Any chance of an update before the weekend?

Fozzie was on New Eden Radio a couple of days ago and discussed this thread and some of the things in it. I remember one of the things he specifically commented on was the down sides of armor tanking (Brutix/Myrm) and the Harbinger's pitiful CPU.

-Liang