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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1761 - 2013-01-17 22:52:59 UTC
It's not like CCP won't redo game mechanics that affect literally nobody prior to the new expansion: What the hell did Retribution fix? Oh, right, the bounty system not a single goddamn person used.
Zallith
Easy Co.
#1762 - 2013-01-17 22:53:14 UTC
I have put up and taken down a POS or two in my time, and let me tell ya its about the most un friendly and out dated system left in eve. The whole system really needs an overhaul.
Pandorium9
Pandorium Prime
The CodeX Alliance
#1763 - 2013-01-17 22:54:00 UTC
Please fix the POS's.

Thanks
Lisa Longbow
#1764 - 2013-01-17 22:54:21 UTC
/signed

Here's what should be done:

1. Fix current POS security issues
2. Start working on the M-POS

With part 1., you get all the time you need to do part 2., nuf said.
D'go Jahn
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1765 - 2013-01-17 22:54:22 UTC
+1. Aside from Sov and Outposts, a POS is probably the only accessible thing in New Eden that gives players a sense of ownership. In W-Space POS's are homes, in Null POS's are customizable logistics; In Low-sec and in Hi-sec POS's are a bit of both.

These little phallic temples affect every area of New Eden and could be made to attract or at least titillate the new player base. We want this change and it wouldn't be hard to market. "Your place among the starts..." or somesuch.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1766 - 2013-01-17 22:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Regan Rotineque
Here is a thought

Why not leave the existing POS alone..... Don't fix one damn thing with them

Instead focus on building the new feature/modular concept - why spend any time on flogging the old dead horse.

Then over time the old POS will be replaced as ppl flock to the new structures.....then CCP can retire the old POS at a later date.

I can imagine that CCP is fearing a "What the hell do we do with the old ones" issue, I think people would just be so damn happy to get the new ones they would gladly immolate the old ones.

He's dead Jim!

Let's have a POS blow up party in Jita.....jettison your old POS and people can blow those up.


~R~

One thing to add as I trolled through this threadnaught - this is not something that affects the few, there are high sec folks posting, low sec folks, null folks, goons, goon haters etc.... This is an EvE issue, all of us would benefit from CCP moving forward on this.
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#1767 - 2013-01-17 22:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg
I could quote most posters above me and type something beneath it like 'This!!' or 'Agreed'. I don't do it because my post would be 88 pages long. Says a lot don't you think CCP? All those pages in 1 day?

To keep it a bit shorter: If you are not already doing so, start working on the POS system. Take one step at a time and DON'T STOP till it is done.
Fix POS's. Please?

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#1768 - 2013-01-17 22:58:04 UTC
Akyla Dey wrote:
87 pages right now...

CCP, have you noticed that no one's in here saying "you know what, I think it's fine", or "I'd rather you work on something else instead"? Even with the Unified Inventory debacle there were proponents of it from the player base. Most every major issue that's come up in this game has had people on both sides. This one does not. There may be people that don't care or that it doesn't affect, but everyone who uses POSs, even tangentially or on a limited basis is in favor of this. Please take note.


Quoted with emphasis.
Egsise
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1769 - 2013-01-17 22:59:02 UTC
CCP there are many of us who you can't see in dscan or in local, please fix the POS issues, it is my only home.
Enta en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1770 - 2013-01-17 22:59:51 UTC
Silvonus wrote:
POS are some of the oldest code, and were never fully developed from the start. Most players understand this, we are not expecting miracles but we do want to see some concrete development happening. POS have been talked about for years as needing fixes, and while there are many areas of the game that also need improving, none is more glaring than POSs. The time is ripe for change.

The arm of POSs is far reaching, affecting nearly every area of the game in one form or another. This is what I feel CCP is worried about when potentially overhauling the entire system. POS affect nearly all of industry, life in null and w-space and corporation management. It is nearly impossible to separate POS from any of these (and more) systems. The risk that something would go wrong is high, even for the slightest of changes. Since the effects are wide, this also has the potential of being the most powerful fix/expansion ever especially if linked to systems like sovereignty, industry and CREST.

Here is what I see are the major areas of EVE that need to be developed:
  • POS and other player controlled structures
  • Industry, production and group mining (ring)
  • Nullsec sovereignty
  • Corporation management

    • Yes, there are more things, but those in my opinion are the largest ones bringing EVE into a “complete” state with no major areas lacking. Now, of those areas, industry is already tied significantly to POS, and while it does not need to be released at the same time as POS, having a new POS backbone to tie into would help it significantly. Nullsec sovereignty is a thorny path. It works currently but has a lot of room for improvement. A POS revamp has the potential not to just affect how we think of POS right now, that is a stick in the bubble, but rather extend onto other player owned and controlled structures, such as I-Hubs, stations, and whatever else we could imagine, which could be then tied into new sov mechanics and methods to maintain and control areas. Corporation mechanics are already so closely tied with POSs, that separating one form the other is hard to do and trying to fix one and not the other only prolongs the issue.

    CCP, you want to have themed expansions? How about this for a theme: “Build your empire.”

    Task half the teams to work on Corporation management and UI, and the other half to POSs. Nothing draws players into game more than being able to claim a piece of land (or in this case, space). Not just something that has your name on it in the corner, but something that you as a player build. You gathered the resources, you teamed up with other players, you fought off those who would compete with you and you prevailed. And these aren't just vanity homes to display pictures, these are the workhorses and the backbone of your military might, your production chain to control the market, the bastion where you live.

    CCP, we know you can pull this off. You pulled off a beautiful interface with planetary interaction in Tyrannis, you've delivered content in Apocrypha on an unprecedented scale, you've paid attention to the details in Crucible and Inferno, you've shown us that you can make a game like none other. The path to greatness isn't easy, but only those who dare the most difficult road reap the greatest rewards.


    This post reflects my thoughts.
    Iosue
    League of Gentlemen
    The Initiative.
    #1771 - 2013-01-17 22:59:54 UTC
    i'm definately in support of POS's finally getting reworked. this serves to benefit many players from large null sec alliances to WH dwellers to solo hi-sec researchers. additionally, doing this in the right way may encourage players that have never considered owning and operating a POS to do so. Please do this CCP!!

    If anything, the theme for the next few expansions should be PLAYER OWNED STRUCTURES. Don't stop with the current abilities of POS's, why not add additional modules that allow us the customize our POS's. They could be a space restaurant, neon sign, living quarters or a bar that allows us the ability pimp our POS. These don't even have to effect game play but could allow players to express a little creativity.
    Gogela
    Epic Ganking Time
    CODE.
    #1772 - 2013-01-17 23:00:18 UTC
    A POS should be able to grow up to be an outpost.

    ~ 'nother side note.

    Signatures should be used responsibly...
    Relgast
    Losi Laboratories
    #1773 - 2013-01-17 23:00:29 UTC
    Thinking about this more... Ok. Ill bite. Lets say ccp is right, and pos's are a minor feature in the game. Then remove them completely. In tonights downtime delete them all. And if ccp is right, there wont be many support calls. It will be fine.

    Seriously CCP. Dont make another one of these kinds of mistakes.
    Unforgiven Storm
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #1774 - 2013-01-17 23:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Unforgiven Storm
    CCP Seagull wrote:
    Both me and CCP Unifex are following this discussion, and will respond when we've had a chance to catch up on all of it and can address and clarify some things properly. Please see CCP Gargant's post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2475724#post2475724

    Im sorry but after I read the entire 100+ pages of the CMS meeting, my understanding is that due to the way releases will now be produced (by themes were CCP will try to touch different areas of the game) POSes might not be touched if the theme is not around that area or only be touch very lightly here and there, what means it can take the next 10 years before the POSes can be in a proper playable state !!!

    For years POSes are in the table and for years CCP has been pushing them to the next expansion and CCP fails to deliver.

    NO MORE! I'm sick of this bullshit.

    You say "a new POS will take an entire expansion resources to make, sorry we can't dedicate 6 months of work only for this, not for a so small number of people",

    OK!

    I understand your position and I respected it, from a business point of view I would do the same, put all my chips on a number is crazy! You want to do it by steps. Fine!

    But them I want you to make a deal with me, to compromise, to put it on writing and sign with blood, because Im sick of being lie too, stop playing with my expectations.


    1 - No more delays, whatever theme expansion who have in the next 2 years, POS fixes, revamping, art will be on it.
    2 - In 2 years from now we will have at least address 80% of all the POS problems reported to date.
    3 - I will release information and I will discuss with the community all POS fixes, priorities, modifications, improvements and game play I pretend to do/change on each release in a similar way I do it when I balance a ship.

    CCP Seagull (please sign here)

    _________________________

    CCP Unifex(please sign here)

    _________________________

    Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
    Nicol Caius
    League of Gentlemen
    The Initiative.
    #1775 - 2013-01-17 23:05:15 UTC
    Silvonus wrote:
    POS are some of the oldest code, and were never fully developed from the start. Most players understand this, we are not expecting miracles but we do want to see some concrete development happening. POS have been talked about for years as needing fixes, and while there are many areas of the game that also need improving, none is more glaring than POSs. The time is ripe for change.

    The arm of POSs is far reaching, affecting nearly every area of the game in one form or another. This is what I feel CCP is worried about when potentially overhauling the entire system. POS affect nearly all of industry, life in null and w-space and corporation management. It is nearly impossible to separate POS from any of these (and more) systems. The risk that something would go wrong is high, even for the slightest of changes. Since the effects are wide, this also has the potential of being the most powerful fix/expansion ever especially if linked to systems like sovereignty, industry and CREST.

    Here is what I see are the major areas of EVE that need to be developed:
  • POS and other player controlled structures
  • Industry, production and group mining (ring)
  • Nullsec sovereignty
  • Corporation management

    • Yes, there are more things, but those in my opinion are the largest ones bringing EVE into a “complete” state with no major areas lacking. Now, of those areas, industry is already tied significantly to POS, and while it does not need to be released at the same time as POS, having a new POS backbone to tie into would help it significantly. Nullsec sovereignty is a thorny path. It works currently but has a lot of room for improvement. A POS revamp has the potential not to just affect how we think of POS right now, that is a stick in the bubble, but rather extend onto other player owned and controlled structures, such as I-Hubs, stations, and whatever else we could imagine, which could be then tied into new sov mechanics and methods to maintain and control areas. Corporation mechanics are already so closely tied with POSs, that separating one form the other is hard to do and trying to fix one and not the other only prolongs the issue.

    CCP, you want to have themed expansions? How about this for a theme: “Build your empire.”

    Task half the teams to work on Corporation management and UI, and the other half to POSs. Nothing draws players into game more than being able to claim a piece of land (or in this case, space). Not just something that has your name on it in the corner, but something that you as a player build. You gathered the resources, you teamed up with other players, you fought off those who would compete with you and you prevailed. And these aren't just vanity homes to display pictures, these are the workhorses and the backbone of your military might, your production chain to control the market, the bastion where you live.

    CCP, we know you can pull this off. You pulled off a beautiful interface with planetary interaction in Tyrannis, you've delivered content in Apocrypha on an unprecedented scale, you've paid attention to the details in Crucible and Inferno, you've shown us that you can make a game like none other. The path to greatness isn't easy, but only those who dare the most difficult road reap the greatest rewards.


    couldn't have said it better myself!!
    Jeune
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1776 - 2013-01-17 23:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeune
    I'm torn on this issue now. On the one hand we have the opportunity to greatly improve a set of systems in DIRE need of attention. The chance to fix something that affects High, Low, Null and W-space as well as aspects of industry and PvP. On the other we have the potential to completely screw up something that is working... even if it is a PITA and makes the game miserable for many players.

    I realize some people have grand schemes for POS's, but it's not necessary to jump straight to the modular-docking-games-enabled-elitist-no-POS's-below-C5 monstrosity that some have proposed. More granular access control would make the game more tolerable for many people. Not only the administrators of POS's, but the other residents as well. No... it's still not a simple request, but... if you wanted simple you shouldn't have endeavored to make the world's largest single-shard MMO.


    Most of us (POS users) realize that we're not the majority in EVE, but we are easily the most influential.

    What you decide to do with POS design and management not only influences the future of your creation, but your reputation as competent, innovative, and responsive game developers.


    Thank you for a great game. Here's hoping you make it even better.
    Jean Leaner
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #1777 - 2013-01-17 23:08:19 UTC
    CCP Seagull wrote:
    Both me and CCP Unifex are following this discussion, and will respond when we've had a chance to catch up on all of it and can address and clarify some things properly. Please see CCP Gargant's post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2475724#post2475724


    No one cares that you're "following it" all we care about is the fact that you've learned absolutely NOTHING from incarna NEX and Aurum. I'm in the "minority that uses POS' . This is me telling you where you can shove your ten year plans.
    Hannah Flex
    #1778 - 2013-01-17 23:09:13 UTC
    Small minority checking in
    Mahimata
    Neos Xemeia
    #1779 - 2013-01-17 23:09:55 UTC
    I have managed many POSes, and I support this product and/or service
    Anoxim Acore
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #1780 - 2013-01-17 23:10:11 UTC
    please fix them CCP