Player Features and Ideas Discussion

"There are lies, damn lies . . . and statistics."

Thanks very much for giving us a clear timeline on the skill change; please sticky that somewhere that isn't buried in this poor neglected forum (it needs to go in a post of its own at least in GD and Skills Discussion, with a clear subject line).

That said, this comment about the Ferox shows the sort of trap you can stumble into if you start making (or justifying) decisions based too much on "metrics." The fact that you find the 250mm rails are the most common module fitted to the Ferox does not mean either that (1) rail fits work well; or (2) people use those fits. People put rails on them because honestly that's the only thing that makes sense . . . because of the crappy bonus you gave the ship. Just because this is the only fit people resort to when they happen to stumble into this hull doesn't mean that it works out well or that they keep using it. It could be that they slap rails on it, take it out once, find out it sucks . . . and then move on to the Drake.

Assuming you have the stats available, you would also need to look at how many Ferox hulls total are in game vs. the alternatives, how often they undock and how much time they spend out when they do, how many total kills on NPCs and players this hull gets, and the ratio of kills to hulls destroyed (if you really wanted to understand what's going on, you would break down the kills and deaths by blaster / rail fits as well). That would give you a much more accurate picture of how the ship plays, whether people are using it, how much, how often, and for what purpose.

Or . . . you could just listen to people who use the boat (or don't), and hear their reasons why. You could also play the game, which I'm sure you guys do, but since you also all have day jobs, I'm sure you are never really going to do that nearly as much as it would take to get a seat of the pants feel for how every little thing works out in practice.

Maybe the optimal bonus works and maybe it doesn't; either way, you should be careful looking at stats like this to answer this question for you, because what they don't tell you is more significant than what they do. This particular stat is marginal enough that it's almost negative information; you know less about the real situation after learning it than you would if you never thought about it at all.

This is correct, but there is another area that needs to be addressed and that is the Drone Interfacing skill, it use to provide an additional drone, no matter what it was, so the amount of drone HP on the field was increased also. Now we get 1 additional drone worth of damage or mining yeald, which tbh is not what the skill use to do.
So the skill should increase the HP of drones, the EW strength, the damage, mining yeald, the logistic repair amount of drones.

This could make non-drone ships a little strong with utility drones, so another option could be to switch the drone interfacing skill effects and the drone ship bonus. IE drone interfacing 10% to the effectiveness of drones per level and the drone ships would ge 20% to the effectiveness of drones per level.

This should be couppled with a nerf to ECM drones.

First to the Brutix:
1) it would be just a buffer, nor does it help PvE, local tanking (once fixed) and (small scale) remote repping that much. What it does is help untanked solo buffered versions, and in larger fleets when alpha is really a threat. So don't really like it, those should stay T2-T3 (booster as likely primary and the like) bonuses.
2) Penaltry reductions: lot more intriguing tbh, still PvP only thing (loosing PvE edge), but it helps with the blasters.
3) again helps with the blasters
4) and again helps with the blasters, a 30% increase in scram range would turn it from easily kited into... well... kindof OP
5) it would need the bay as well, and the myrm would possibly look even worse next to it.

Ferox:
Agreed with the noob trap, friend of mine started the game, went caldari, I had to talk to him on 3 different occasion not to expect it to behave the way he thought it would. Somehow he didn't like the Brutix. And in fact liked missiles, just not how the Drake looks.

fozzie,why not make cyclone or hurricane the equivalent of typhoon?at a smaller scale of course.

with 8 slots, 4 turrets/4 launcher slots with bonuses to rate of fire for heavy,heavy assault missiles,rapid light and damage/rof for projectiles.while keeping the shield bonus for cyclone.thats a ship i would fly everyday

or at least give cyclone 6 if not 7 launcher slots out of 7 highs.

no,we are not greedy lol.

A blaster-boat in PVE... Hmm, what could it be? Certainly it's not mission-running - too much hustle. Must be something where NPCs are not numerous but strong enough to tank that mad DPS. A-ha! Those are Incursions or Wormhole sites, did I guess right? But those are ran with logis, so local reps would be inappropriate :-((


That once again confirms - Typhoon is awesome.

Rep bonus is most certainly obsolete in comparison to a resistance bonus. The ONLY, and I say again, THE ONLY advantage the active rep bonus has over a resistance bonus is a 3% advantage in active tank only at skill level 5. The ship with a resistance bonus active tanks nearly as well, has far more ehp, and has a far better remote tank.

Now I most certainly do agree that the active rep bonus should be present on one of the gallente BCs, and my vote goes for the Brutix. Imho The brutix should be the close range active brawler (hype line) and the Myrmidon should lose the rep bonus in favor of another drone bonus as the ship does better with an asb tank compared to a tripple rep anyway. That being said... The active rep bonus needs to be increased to 10% per level on all ships regardless if improvements to the modules themselves happen. W/o such improvements to the bonus the imbalance between resistance and active bonuses will be no different and this discussion will simply continue for another 5+ years...

On top of that, resistance is cap-independent.
But I'd rather say - nerf resistance bosuses to 3.75% all across the board (yay! supercaps as well). It would prevent power creep. It's also indirect nerf of logi ships, which are sometimes considered "almost overpowered".

Ok, true, for the properly scaled places, it does count.
You suppose a Brutix can be turned into an incursion-running ship? An effective one?
And with WHs... well, when you can solo the lesser ones in a Drake, and the greater one need a proper fleet, again, the right tool for the job? Never lived there, so wouldn't know. Would like to!

Armor rigs are used on PvE ships sure, just that I'm so used to armor ships being slow, I don't really register their drawback there, my bad.