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New NPC AI, how about no?

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Mund Richard
#161 - 2013-01-06 20:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Vengeance Thirst wrote:
Hey man i know gunships work. But as I stated I like drone boats. Why should those be inefficient and other not?

Also, why should only null benefit from a rollback?
That was my beef with it.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#162 - 2013-01-07 11:56:55 UTC
Daily bump!
amurder Hakomairos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#163 - 2013-01-07 15:47:00 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Daily bump, Its unbelievable how ignorant is CCP to these kind of posts. How many posts or how many likes, what is required basically to get atleast a respond from the ones that were praying/begging to? Its outrageous that they simply ignore us! It seems like civilized solutions are not working. Sad...



they likely aren't reading and don't care. its been a month since the change without even a word from the devs
Mund Richard
#164 - 2013-01-07 15:57:18 UTC
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Daily bump, Its unbelievable how ignorant is CCP to these kind of posts. How many posts or how many likes, what is required basically to get atleast a respond from the ones that were praying/begging to? Its outrageous that they simply ignore us! It seems like civilized solutions are not working. Sad...

they likely aren't reading and don't care. its been a month since the change without even a word from the devs

Well, if someone is really-really optimistic, he might interpret the silence being caused by the holidays and vacations, plus the time needed for discuss Things internally.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#165 - 2013-01-08 12:00:51 UTC
Daily bump, maybe a proper patch will come out sometime near which is not only bug fixing but something that favors the dissatisfied!
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#166 - 2013-01-09 04:23:42 UTC
I doubt it will :) Harder content leads to more accounts.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
Mund Richard
#167 - 2013-01-09 12:42:51 UTC
Because Hard is defined by how tedious and annoying it is. Roll

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#168 - 2013-01-09 13:00:56 UTC
daily bump
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#169 - 2013-01-10 09:31:20 UTC
daily bump, I figured it out, the devs and probably all ccp is working so hard on dust 514 content, that they forget to watch feedback on their original game and the new copy paste AI.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#170 - 2013-01-11 08:46:00 UTC
daily bump
Mund Richard
#171 - 2013-01-11 09:14:23 UTC
Tripple bump, inb4 threadlock?

Had an interesting encounter yesterday.
Only *one* elite frig shooting a T2 drone, and it was already in deep armor while trying to make it's way back, when his 4 buddies popped the lone webber.
That's a frig alone, and not 5, and yet it took out the shields and most armor while webifying also.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#172 - 2013-01-11 13:48:55 UTC
Hello folks,

We have been (silently) following several threads about NPC AI changes deployed in Retribution and we wanted to let you know of our stance on this.


    NPCs target and kill my drones all the time in PvE after Retribution

  • We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely than just bland launch drones and forget about they exist until all NPCs are dead. Having NPCs engage your drones if they are your primary source of damage is to be expected and we expect play styles to adapt in consequence.

  • However, there is a fine balance to be reached here, and while we want more challenge in PvE, we don't want drones to be insta-killed without you having time to do anything to prevent it. The changes deployed during Retribution were too extreme, which is why we deployed a patch on December, 19th to alleviate this issue.

    • Quote:
    NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
  • Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
  • Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
  • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.



    • NPCs tracking disruption is too strong since Retribution

    This is another bug which should have been fixed on December, the 12th. If you still are having issue with Tracking Disruption NPCs please let us know by filing bug reports with the implied NPC names.

    Quote:

  • Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.


We hope that helps a bit.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#173 - 2013-01-11 14:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mu-Shi Ai
Except previous to the patch that changed the AI, you actually did have to manage drone aggro. It was a fairly predictable system (generally speaking, if you shot a linked group of enemies, their hate would stay on you and not peel off to your drones at all after that), but it was still something you had to manage. The notion that it was ever, at all, a widespread thing for people to just put out drones and then go AFK while they mopped everything up, is so utterly absurd, and is more of a myth than anything else. Not because it was 100% impossible, but because it would have been a completely suboptimal way to run missions. If you were running missions that way, then you were nerfing yourself from the outset, no patching needed. The AI changes were a solution in search of a problem.
Mund Richard
#174 - 2013-01-11 14:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Thank you for giving a Dev reply.

In all honesty, since I started running L4s again (admittedly not long ago), I haven't lost any T2 drone, only T1s in L3s (that I purposly stress-tested a bit).
However, I didn't yet get any of the missions I'm wary of regarding drones.

And that one elite frig almost killing a T2 was kindof foreboding, any time elites are on field, I first shoot the cruisers and only then launch light ones. Sniping them with sentries if there is any chance I'll lock them in time, and now I'm even training signature analysis to V to that end.
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
The notion that it was ever, at all, a widespread thing for people to just put out drones and then go AFK while they mopped everything up, is so utterly absurd, and is more of a myth than anything else. Not because it was 100% impossible, but because it would have been a completely suboptimal way to run missions. If you were running missions that way, then you were nerfing yourself from the outset, no patching needed. The AI changes were a solution in search of a problem.

In a Raven though for instance, you could unlease drones, let them auto-kill frigs, and only target cruisers and above with your missiles.
Not the same level of AFK, but totally ignoring drones.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#175 - 2013-01-11 14:21:09 UTC
Hello,

I am glad that ccp care about these topics!

Altough I am aware of the changes ccp implemented against the drone syndrome(which is good and I agree with it), I still didnt get an answer for the smaller yet more annoying problems such us:

- small scale pvp ( tackle something in a belt or an anomaly and the whole pocket is agroing you and eventually killing you without help)

-High end exploration sites shooting logistic ships, making it impossible to finish with a single logi or extremely expensive ships.

I believe the balance still needs some work to do.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#176 - 2013-01-11 14:35:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

NPCs tracking disruption is too strong since Retribution

This is another bug which should have been fixed on December, the 12th. If you still are having issue with Tracking Disruption NPCs please let us know by filing bug reports with the implied NPC names.

Definitely still bugged. Did Sansha version of Recon pt1 L4 this week and TDs still in effect even when they are showing as not being used. Hadn't realised this was 'fixed' so sadly didn't make a note of the NPC names - I will if it happens again.

Fear God and Thread Nought
Tatiana W1sla
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2013-01-11 14:52:44 UTC
still bugged, at least for all sansha tracking disrupt ship
rey Aumer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2013-01-11 15:01:02 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


NPCs tracking disruption is too strong since Retribution

This is another bug which should have been fixed on December, the 12th. If you still are having issue with Tracking Disruption NPCs please let us know by filing bug reports with the implied NPC names.

Quote:

  • Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.
    • [/list]

    We hope that helps a bit.


    Might want to check out this thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178599

    Lots of feedback and screenshots on how it isn't fixed.
    amurder Hakomairos
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #179 - 2013-01-11 15:03:53 UTC
    LOL how can they not know the TD is still bugged? None of them play the game?

    Question about the drone AI - why do my drones automatically attack exactly the target I DON'T want them to? Can we get a setting where I can tell drones to attack whoever I'm shooting? I thought 'focus fire' setting used to do this but for sure now it doesn't.
    Mund Richard
    #180 - 2013-01-11 15:14:55 UTC
    amurder Hakomairos wrote:
    Question about the drone AI - why do my drones automatically attack exactly the target I DON'T want them to? Can we get a setting where I can tell drones to attack whoever I'm shooting? I thought 'focus fire' setting used to do this but for sure now it doesn't.
    In a Blockade I had my sentries kill two triggers when they killed two-three ships while I was damped down to 8km lock range. Note how only one trigger spawns at a time...
    Even more interesting is when I start shooting at a battleship, and while my drones have focus fire on, they start shooting at two different ones.

    It's not the drone that got a new AI, but the rats.
    Drones are as dumb as always, better to have them on passive, at least that way when a new wave of elite cruisers and frigs spawn, you have a chance to recall them.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.