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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#321 - 2013-01-09 13:07:55 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Admit it, you want something other than rep bonus on your brutix just so you can shield fit it better and shoot null everywhere. Disgusting.

I admit I'd like either the Ferox or the Brutix to be suited for that.
At the moment, there is no shield blaster BC, even though TWO empires field hybrid weaponry.
Which means two medium hybrid BCs.
One is forced to active tank, the other gets no damage bonus and an optimum to force rails on it, as blasters have too short optimal compared to falloff.



There aren't supposed to be any specifically shield blaster ships at all. Caldari are supposed to be rails, gallente are supposed to be armour.
Alexander McKeon
Perkone
Caldari State
#322 - 2013-01-09 13:08:19 UTC
I can't say that I like the loss of the utility high slot: being able to fit a large remote shield repair module is necessary for the sort of small gang spider-tank PvE that I like to use my Drake for out in w-space.
Inepsa1987
#323 - 2013-01-09 13:09:22 UTC
God I hope active armor tanking is getting a buff, almost have to with those gallente bonuses. Waste?

Spaceship Pilot.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#324 - 2013-01-09 13:10:46 UTC
1. I think you've gone too far with that tiercide. Price tag does matter for bigger ships, and having tiers is not that terrible thing after all. Having exactly the same number of slots is not necessary, in my opinion. I'd suggest bringing extra slots on some battlecruisers (poor Cane...). Same would apply to battleships - do not please nerf Mael or add new slots for Domi.
2. 5% armor hp per level for Brutix seems fits its role much better, and in line with it's big brother, Erebus.
3. Nerfing Harbinger? Fozzie, you're evil.
Mund Richard
#325 - 2013-01-09 13:12:54 UTC
Sigras wrote:
#1. your 33% number is using a 2/2/1 configuration . . . most people for simplicity sake used 3 heavies which do 285 DPS which means the ship does exactly 33% more drone DPS. Yes optimal configuration is 2/2/1 but that was rarely used.

#2 nobody and I mean nobody uses blasters on the myrm . . . they take cap, cost more PG, have less range, and a non select-able damage type when compared with autocannons. Autocannons were used before and they will be used after this change.

So... you say the ship's bay was used suboptimally before in the drone department, and not using it's race's weaponry because it's crap, and thus the buff is better than the self-admitted EFT warrioring I did.

I was trying to show how crap it's combo was, and you helped.

Now, about making it more appreciateable, and easier to use, you have a point, now folk don't need stupid drone setups to make it work, and that's always nice!

I do appreciate it, I really do.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Mund Richard
#326 - 2013-01-09 13:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
TrouserDeagle wrote:
There aren't supposed to be any specifically shield blaster ships at all. Caldari are supposed to be rails, gallente are supposed to be armour.

And neither Cane or Harbi is supposed to be nano-shield fit.
And yet they are, because that works.

Shoehorning a ship into one specific fitting ain't nice.

A shield+damage bonus for the Ferox wouldn't make it more a blaster ship, than rails.
That medium rails suck, and it would be used with blasters, is the module's fault. Roll
Same with a tracking+damage bonused Brutix, should just as much be viable with armor (or rails?), if not for the way the game works. Roll

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
takedoom
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2013-01-09 13:15:42 UTC
The dawn of the triple rep brutix.

http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
mine mi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2013-01-09 13:15:50 UTC
Something you have to think, is that one of the bc, is the hull of a commandship , so one of the bonus would have to be a passive tanking bonus.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#329 - 2013-01-09 13:18:36 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
There aren't supposed to be any specifically shield blaster ships at all. Caldari are supposed to be rails, gallente are supposed to be armour.

And neither Cane or Harbi is supposed to be nano-shield fit.
And yet they are, because that works better.

Shoehorning a ship into one specific fitting ain't nice.

A shield+damage bonus for the Ferox wouldn't make it more a blaster ship, than rails.
That medium rails suck, and it would be used with blasters, is the module's fault. Roll
Same with a tracking+damage bonused Brutix, should just as much be viable with armor (or rails?), if not for the way the game works. Roll



It's better to fix things than give the scrubs what they want.
Mund Richard
#330 - 2013-01-09 13:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
TrouserDeagle wrote:
It's better to fix things than give the scrubs what they want.

Oh, I'm full behind any fixes to broken things like medium armor repping below doing it x3, or medium rails.

However, I would still consider forcing a ship for one tank type, and one weapon system of the two it has bonuses for broken as well.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#331 - 2013-01-09 13:24:30 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted

thisCry
Friar KIte
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2013-01-09 13:26:20 UTC
Prophecy drone boat? Be still my heart~
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#333 - 2013-01-09 13:27:55 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
It's better to fix things than give the scrubs what they want.

Oh, I'm full behind any fixes to broken things like medium armor repping below doing it x3, or medium rails.

However, I would still consider forcing a ship for one tank type, and one weapon system of the two it has bonuses for broken as well.


I don't think so. Only minmatar are supposed to be able to really choose whether they go shield or armour, and even then, only on some ships. If they made armour tanking less bad, and maybe allowed some sort of non-cap booster active tanking, and maybe made some sort of actual downside to buffer shield tanking, then all would be well.
Mund Richard
#334 - 2013-01-09 13:30:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I don't think so. Only minmatar are supposed to be able to really choose whether they go shield or armour, and even then, only on some ships. If they made armour tanking less bad, and maybe allowed some sort of non-cap booster active tanking, and maybe made some sort of actual downside to buffer shield tanking, then all would be well.

And only WINmatar should be able to go maybe shields and short range weaponry while also having the option for armor tanking, or arti, compared to which caldari should be shoehorned into shield + railguns on their turret ships every time?

If one race can more or less manage both shields and armor, short and long range turret systems, why shouldn't two sharing a weapon system manage at least their respective tank and have the option for both short and long range?
Because of lore, and theme and whatnot?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Ultimate Gunpower
Spooks On Pings
SE7EN-SINS
#335 - 2013-01-09 13:33:29 UTC
Ok so by rebalancing BCs to make them all viable at the current state of affairs as outlined by the proposed changes to each ship we are having a funeral for the Hurricane, Drake and Harbinger and the new whoop ass BCs are going to be in the following order: Prophecy and the Myrm with close procession of the Cyclone, Brutix and Ferox...

Great job, kill the two favored BCs dead and make 2 new over powered BCs the Prophecy and Myrm :)

Can’t say I am ever happy when I read these proposed changes because quite simply the bulk of the logic behind it does not resonate with me or make much sense to me.

The Hurricane got whacked bad on the release of Retribution and so did the Drake indirectly with the missile nerf and now these two fine BCs are getting shot in the back of the head and left for dead with the new proposed changes :( great!

PS on the drake I love this part: First you nerf the DPS and now you nerf the tank and agility :) awesome.... So one question, what is left? Nothing
On the Hurricane u nerf the power grid so bad and now u want to nerf the tank and agility :) awesome.... So one question, what is left? Oh yes a bit of modest DPS that was always balanced.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#336 - 2013-01-09 13:34:17 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I don't think so. Only minmatar are supposed to be able to really choose whether they go shield or armour, and even then, only on some ships. If they made armour tanking less bad, and maybe allowed some sort of non-cap booster active tanking, and maybe made some sort of actual downside to buffer shield tanking, then all would be well.

And only WINmatar should be able to go maybe shields and short range weaponry while also having the option for armor tanking, or arti, compared to which caldari should be shoehorned into shield + railguns on their turret ships every time?

If one race can more or less manage both shields and armor, short and long range turret systems, why shouldn't two sharing a weapon system manage at least their respective tank and have the option for both short and long range?
Because of lore, and theme and whatnot?


Railguns are only bad at mid range because they have to be compared to TE'd short-range weapons, which end up with more damage and 9999x tracking and fit easier.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#337 - 2013-01-09 13:34:27 UTC
it has been stated before but i will say it again: please consider changing the drake's damage bonus. either remove one launcher and add a RoF bonus or make the damage bonus apply to all missile types.
you can even make the 25% kinetic damage a role bonus and add a 25% em, thermal and explosive bonus if you like.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2013-01-09 13:34:38 UTC
Sigras wrote:
#1. your 33% number is using a 2/2/1 configuration . . . most people for simplicity sake used 3 heavies which do 285 DPS which means the ship does exactly 33% more drone DPS. Yes optimal configuration is 2/2/1 but that was rarely used.

#2 nobody and I mean nobody uses blasters on the myrm . . . they take cap, cost more PG, have less range, and a non select-able damage type when compared with autocannons. Autocannons were used before and they will be used after this change.

#1 the 2/2/1 combo was brought up in the combat cruiser thread and was deemed acceptable for actual use, on this I agree with you though.

#2 on this one imagine the new player who is training Gallente drone ships, starts with the Tristan then moves on to the Algos after that presses on to the Vexor, up to this point all these ships are drone/hybrid combo ships, then moves up to the Myrmidon and is told to train for T2 projectiles for the best use of this ship, after that moves on to the Dominix and its back to hybrid turrets. Most are going to skip training yet another weapon system, making 3? for drone ships, not gonna happen until they start cross training.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#339 - 2013-01-09 13:48:14 UTC
Cool. With +1 low slot, the Brutix can fit even a better shield tank!
Alli Othman
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#340 - 2013-01-09 13:59:15 UTC
Tiericide- moar like utilityhigh-icide