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Is the damnation underpowered or the vulture overpowered?
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Zoltan Lazar
#1 - 2012-12-29 09:19:19 UTC
Obviously, one is armor, one is shield. However, two things are critical when it comes to OGB ships; CPU and sensor strength.

Including the new ECCM skill to V, a damnation gets 33.9 and a vulture gets 40- when you multiply that by implants and ECCM, the vulture can reach near 300, while the damnation barely breaks 220. This is compounded by the fact that the damnation has only four mids, so if you try to fit any command processors you struggle to break 180. This gap is the difference between scannable by anyone and scannable only by those with full V + implants.

And for CPU, the damnation puts only 594, while the vulture puts 681. This is a huge gap, which is again compounded when you include co-processors. The damnation may have more lows, but its low sensor strength means it now has to use those lows for more ECCM. This extra CPU can also allow for a "superflous" link to be fit, one which increases sensor strength, further putting the vulture above the damnation.

Is the vulture better, or am I missing something?
To mare
Advanced Technology
#2 - 2012-12-29 09:50:07 UTC
its just the 2 ships werent meant to be OG and hard to scan but to stay in the battelfield and take a beating, and hopefully one day CCP will remove OGB
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2012-12-29 11:17:45 UTC
Look at the tank you can get on them. The Damnation is a diamond reinforced titanium brick. Also; HAMs are pretty good.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2012-12-29 13:57:51 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
Obviously, one is armor, one is shield. However, two things are critical when it comes to OGB ships; CPU and sensor strength.

Including the new ECCM skill to V, a damnation gets 33.9 and a vulture gets 40- when you multiply that by implants and ECCM, the vulture can reach near 300, while the damnation barely breaks 220. This is compounded by the fact that the damnation has only four mids, so if you try to fit any command processors you struggle to break 180. This gap is the difference between scannable by anyone and scannable only by those with full V + implants.

And for CPU, the damnation puts only 594, while the vulture puts 681. This is a huge gap, which is again compounded when you include co-processors. The damnation may have more lows, but its low sensor strength means it now has to use those lows for more ECCM. This extra CPU can also allow for a "superflous" link to be fit, one which increases sensor strength, further putting the vulture above the damnation.

Is the vulture better, or am I missing something?


The only important metric for a FCS is how much EHP it can sport whilst mounting 3-4 warfare links.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#5 - 2012-12-30 08:31:01 UTC
The damnation is what it is, a brick.

It does a superb job of sitting in a fight, soaking up damage and encouraging good FCs to shoot someone else first.

As someone else said neither of these ships were designed to be off-grid boosters, this is something CCP have commented on in the past and they have proposed changes to the way boosts work to remove off-grids from the game. If you must off-grid boost then use a strat cruiser which is a better booster anyways.

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Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#6 - 2012-12-30 17:18:03 UTC
The Damnation's tank is just stupidly good. Leave it at that. As said above me, they set up shop, soak up damage like a sponge, and give boosts. Lets turn OffGB into OnGB only

I wear my goggles at night.

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Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#7 - 2012-12-30 17:26:37 UTC
Dev Blog already stated OGB is going away (They said 'sometime next year' but I am not holding my breath on a specific schedule from them on that front), so I would not over train an alt just for that purpose, if that is your plan.

The other points people above have already covered. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2012-12-30 17:28:17 UTC
All the fleet hulls are naff but promises have been made and changes are coming.
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-30 22:30:36 UTC
X
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
Obviously, one is armor, one is shield. However, two things are critical when it comes to OGB ships; CPU and sensor strength.

Including the new ECCM skill to V, a damnation gets 33.9 and a vulture gets 40- when you multiply that by implants and ECCM, the vulture can reach near 300, while the damnation barely breaks 220. This is compounded by the fact that the damnation has only four mids, so if you try to fit any command processors you struggle to break 180. This gap is the difference between scannable by anyone and scannable only by those with full V + implants.

And for CPU, the damnation puts only 594, while the vulture puts 681. This is a huge gap, which is again compounded when you include co-processors. The damnation may have more lows, but its low sensor strength means it now has to use those lows for more ECCM. This extra CPU can also allow for a "superflous" link to be fit, one which increases sensor strength, further putting the vulture above the damnation.



Is the vulture better, or am I missing something?


my damnation fit is over 250k

ehp. and thats not including slaves


its bad ass
Zoltan Lazar
#10 - 2012-12-30 22:48:29 UTC
And everyone missed the part where I specified OGB.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-12-30 23:35:29 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
And everyone missed the part where I specified OGB.


and you missed where they are not meant to be used as OGB. if you are offgrid use a t3. simple as that.

and that is speaking as someone with all leadership skills to 5.. ALL!

use the ships for what they are meant as.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-12-31 09:18:06 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
And everyone missed the part where I specified OGB.




Obvious ogb bait was obvious. They didn't skip over it, they jsut didn't take the bait.

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#13 - 2012-12-31 15:19:22 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
And everyone missed the part where I specified OGB.


Yeah, according to your metrics, the vulture is clearly a superb OGB. What you missed was that "everyone" doesn't care that its imbalanced for OGB, since both ships are inferior in that role, that perceived imbalance is not worth correcting at all.

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Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#14 - 2013-01-01 11:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
This is something I was just playing around with on EFT to see what I could do with it, similar tank to what I run on a vengence and a Sacrilege, and then with Ganglinks, and HAM IIs, it comes out with CPU maxed and needed a EE-601 [1%] with V to fit it... it does seem the Damnation IS a tad CPU lacking, 3x Ganglinks and I would have to do the one below this.

[Damnation, Damnation v1.0]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Acolyte II x5

[Damnation, Damnation v1.2]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
**Adaptive Nano Plating II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Acolyte II x5

w/o a implant or this with ** EANM II and a EE-603 [3%] to hammer it in there.

it's odd because the ship is supposed to be a combat booster ship with 3x active links and some kind of combat capability, but my HAM II Sacrilege is actually very similar and throws out alot more DPS/Alpha then this one does.. due ot bonus basically... so the benefit is def supposed to be this ship is 90% as good as the Sac, but makes up for it as a 3x booster.

Oddly the Absolution I had no problem fitting it out with a solid fit and that could do it's role 100%

[Absolution, Absolution v1.0]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Scrambler II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II [ea. Ganglink is the same CPU/PG so this could be any of the armor links]

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Acolyte II x5

I should point out that in my fitting style I try to get high resists over bulk EHP, I am just funny that way, I like all my resists to be in the upper 80% to lower 90% with with active reppers and cap stable doing so, and then plate for additional armor buffing, I know it's not the standard way but it seems to work for my play style - since often times I am w/o logi or support and most of what I do is not typical PvP style anyway, and most of my ships are just hangar toys anyway... so take it with a grain of salt.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-01-01 11:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ewwwwwwwwww... the only "true way" to tank a Damnation is with dual 1600 plates. Damage is a tertiary concern, at best.

edit: and the Damnnation is not really meant for solo work. Boosts only take affect when you are in a fleet of two or more (with at least one person in the fleet being in system with you).

How did you Veterans start?
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#16 - 2013-01-01 12:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ewwwwwwwwww... the only "true way" to tank a Damnation is with dual 1600 plates. Damage is a tertiary concern, at best.

edit: and the Damnnation is not really meant for solo work. Boosts only take affect when you are in a fleet of two or more (with at least one person in the fleet being in system with you).


I am going to use mine in my mining fleet as an additional booster for my foreman Mindlink and Mining Ganglinks...hehe - cause it looks cool.

*runs away and ducks thrown stuff as he runs out the door*
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2013-01-01 14:33:07 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
And everyone missed the part where I specified OGB.


If you can fly a Damnation then you're at most 5 or 6 days away from being able to fly an OGB Legion, which will work better in every way.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-01-01 15:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
damnation is by FAR the best boosting command ship, vulture is the second worst, so i have no idea what youre talking about.
command ships boost on field, off grid boosting is for T3s.

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Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#19 - 2013-01-02 08:30:27 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
EFT diarrhea


For the love of God, do not use these fits.

@OP, The racial "flavors" of Caldari (Generally higher CPU and Sensor Strength, slot layout designed for shields) lend themselves to off-grid boosters compared to Amarr (Brick Tank, scarce mids, armor tanked). This isn't limited to Command ships either, it's just how the ships were designed.