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Upgrade low-sec stargate guns
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Kar Erkkinen
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#1 - 2012-12-28 03:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kar Erkkinen
I think low-secs should be places where safe at stargates, unsafe elsewhere, at least for ships smaller than battleships.
But today, stargate guns are too weak, pirates are free to attack without risk, as in null-sec, if they want to be pirates in low-sec, they should learn scanning.
Don't like to see stargates connecting high-sec and low-sec being guarded, watched by numerous pirates, gatecampers should go to null-sec.

As I think low-secs should be more friendly for cruiser sized new players to travel and explore.
Cruisers are most common in new players, but they are too strong in Lv2 missions, too weak in Lv3 missions. They would be ideal for exploring low-sec for asteroid rats/cosmic anomalies/cosmic signatures if stargates are safe. That will add much more fun to new players.

I suggest to upgrade low-sec stargate guns to only well tanked capitals could survive from them.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2012-12-28 03:37:12 UTC
There was an idea that was floated by CCP to "ramp up" gate/station gun DPS to break up gatecamps... but it was STRONGLY opposed by low-sec and null-sec dwellers.

The problem that was pointed out was that most combat happens at stargates because that's one of the few places you can "force" it.
Someone who runs a complex/anomaly and is watching D-scan will warp away to a stargate or station as soon as he/she sees probes trying to get a fix on him/her. And haulers have no need to go to asteroid belts or plexes/anomalies.

How did you Veterans start?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2012-12-28 04:05:02 UTC
ShahFluffers said what needed to be said.

Please know the game, before posting bad ideas. It'll help you a lot.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kar Erkkinen
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#4 - 2012-12-28 05:52:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem that was pointed out was that most combat happens at stargates because that's one of the few places you can "force" it.

That's ture, but this problem should not be solved by continually letting stargates be the only battlefields. There could be enhancement to ship modules, ship scanning mechanism, capacity used for warping...
Haulers should not be attacked so easily in low-sec, low-sec is not null-sec, there should be some security services in low-sec. What i am seeing is a jump from 0.5 to 0.4 is like 1.0 to 0.0.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2012-12-28 06:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Kar Erkkinen wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem that was pointed out was that most combat happens at stargates because that's one of the few places you can "force" it.

That's ture, but this problem should not be solved by continually letting stargates be the only battlefields. There could be enhancement to ship modules, ship scanning mechanism, capacity used for warping...
Haulers should not be attacked so easily in low-sec, low-sec is not null-sec, there should be some security services in low-sec. What i am seeing is a jump from 0.5 to 0.4 is like 1.0 to 0.0.

Well... there is a difference between low and null sec.

In null sec you should be afraid of everything... because there are simply no "rules" to hold anyone back.

In low-sec... there are SOME restrictions that favor of the defender. Frigates and Destroyers can't really "gank" on gates or stations because they lack the tank to work under gate guns (most T1 frigates will die in one of two shots, destroyers 3 or 4). You also don't have to worry about bubbles or bombs. And you can take comfort in the fact that an aggressor will lose security status... which, if it gets low enough, means you can attack them anytime, anywhere.
Oh yeah... and they won't really enter high-sec with those characters unless they have something very specific in mind (because the Faction Police are a pain in the ass).

How did you Veterans start?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2012-12-28 12:31:58 UTC
Kar Erkkinen wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem that was pointed out was that most combat happens at stargates because that's one of the few places you can "force" it.

That's ture, but this problem should not be solved by continually letting stargates be the only battlefields. There could be enhancement to ship modules, ship scanning mechanism, capacity used for warping...
Haulers should not be attacked so easily in low-sec, low-sec is not null-sec, there should be some security services in low-sec. What i am seeing is a jump from 0.5 to 0.4 is like 1.0 to 0.0.
Why should haulers not be attacked so easily? What makes them special?

Instead of looking for CCP to hold your hand, why not use the tools they already provide? Stop being the victim and learn the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2012-12-28 16:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
I'll agree lowsec has a problem (and hisec, and null for that matter) in that there's no "good" way to protect the industrials.

(Current) Options:
1. Fleet -- doesn't work because the "bad guys" will blow up the industrials* and GTFO before the fleet can really do anything
2. scout -- works, up til the point that (e.g.) you're hauling stuff to your forward base (POS) in (some stationless system) and the route isn't a pipe, with a crew sitting in one of the adjacent systems off your route. Obviously "more scouts" would help, but isn't always possible.
3. Cloak/Cyno -- unless the pilot is terribad, this works nearly all the time (or close enough to it). The trouble with this is twofold.
3.a. Cyno capable ships have a relatively high barrier for entry (skills and ISK)
3.b. There really shouldn't be a "just do it this way all the time" option -- each one should have pros and cons (same as everything else here).


honestly, I'd love to see a resurgence of "needing" a fleet to do the crap/thankless work -- make it involve "everyone" instead of "well, we're going on a roam ... have fun hauling our ammo from Jita in your freighter while we go shoot stuff and have fun!"


edit -->
* --> T1/2 variants, and to a lesser extent freighters.

I'm also not saying that industrials should be given better tank (barring fittings, skills, implants, etc, unless a better base tank is deemed a good idea as part of the ongoing rebalancing), but that the solution to the problem should be group oriented in some manner.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#8 - 2012-12-29 01:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Kyle
Yet, I manage to move ships, ammo and modules into low sec and expensive shiny loot out of low sec every day. I do not understand why your loot pinata that is a slow fat barrel around tasty filling should somehow be invulnerable.

Low Sec is not High Sec and it is not Null Sec. It has its own set of rules and its own skills and situations to be aware of and work around.

Because you do not want to work around them and because you want somewhere to huddle while staring out into the dark forest scared of the wolves does not mean that you get them. If you wish to huddle in safety, do so on the other side of the gate. If you wish to haul items, get a blockade runner or a jump freighter for large items or hire one of the lovely services out there that will doe it for you.

From your assumption that increasing gateguns will solve the worlds problems I am going to infer that you have never fought under gateguns. They hurt. People are not magically tanking them. People are being chewed up by them and frantically praying that they can get the job finished and/or get out of the situation before they are finished off. Surviving gateguns is not an automatic. Go and tank your ship as you think it should be tanked and let the gateguns get angry at you. You will be surprised.

A lot of fights happen on gates but not all fights happen on gates. People will still scan you down in your sites and kill you. They will be waiting for you in them. They will trap you in your belts. You will then cry to have faction police come and save you. That tends to be the next step.

There are many, many differences between low and high sec. The way ships are fit, the implants a pilot chooses to use, the fleet compositions and the tactical decisions vary greatly because of the different mechanisms that each section of space allows for.

The people that would be most hurt by strong gateguns are the people who live and fight in low sec. They are not the people ganking your carebearmobile. They are the people out looking for fights with other people that are looking for fights. This 'safer better low sec' concept only hurts the people who are PvPing in low sec which is an area meant to be PvPed in.

Beyond that, "only null sec should have gatecamps" is foolish. A gatecamp is more then an instant gank. High sec gates are camped all of the time. Maybe Concord should just appear and blap anyone that sits on a gate for longer then thirty seconds just in CASE they maybe sort of thought about doing something. Its an idea that is fueled by a lack of knowledge of the space that you wish to change.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-12-29 03:57:34 UTC
As a -9.5 lo sec resident who pirates, rats, mines, and missions in lo sec, I must say the gate guns are already very strong.

Without a fleet with logi most ships will melt in under a minute under their fire. Even passive drakes can't tank them. You need a rattlesnake to solo tank gate guns forever.

Gate guns have a definite outcome on small gang PVP and part of the challenge ends up being trying to get the enemy to shoot first so we don't have to deal with gate guns.

Finally, if you're going to come to lo sec get the right tools. Especially solo. EVE has an amazing variety of haulers, pvp ships, ratters / missioners / plexers that can warp cloaked. Are they as good at their "Job" as their non-cloaky counterparts? Hell no! But they get the job of surviving and profiting in lo sec done.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2012-12-29 06:01:01 UTC
Why not make gate guns more dependant on the security on the OTHER side of the gate.
So a 0.5 <> 0.4 gate will have strong guns on the low sec side. (Stronger than current even probably)
0.4 <> 0.4 is about current.
But gates further into low sec down to 0.2 will be weaker than current.

This solves the Ops issue of the second you jump into low sec you get hit with a gate camp, without destroying the fact that gates are choke points between systems inside low sec.

And could cause more people to risk exploring low sec, since they know they aren't likely to get exploded the second they jump into low sec (Yes, I know all the tricks, but the reality is, a lot of peoples first experience with low sec is a gate camp on the first low sec system they hit.)
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#11 - 2012-12-29 13:03:25 UTC
They should nerf gate guns, not buff it.

It's hard enough as it is for frigates.

The Tears Must Flow
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-12-30 14:00:24 UTC
Learn how to use your D-scan and how to detect gate camping behavior in players actions and you will avoid most of it. Gates are fine right now, in fact like it was said before its the only place you can force someone to pvp at the moment. I personaly dont do it, but I have nothing against it too. A great sugestion would be buffing "some how" pvp outside gates so probably you will see less gate campings and more pew pew in belts and etc.

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.