EVE General Discussion

Yes, they did.
(inb4 thread of people telling me I'm wrong)
The same applies to the Mackinaw vs. Hulk.

one is a fleet ship, the other isnt.

compared to the t2 variants, the mack is pretty cool, even when fitted for max tank, the hulk in the other hand is garbage.

honestly, even considering they are supposed to be used with an orca dropoff, they are still crap, they need to buff their mining output, or atleast allow barges to acess the orca fleet hanger from 7.5km+... as it is now, they die hilariously to SBs.

No, they need to switch its EHP with that of the Mackinaw.

Here is how the ships rank currently with respect to three variables - yield, cargo capacity, and tank

Skiff/Proc: 3, 2, 1
Mack/Ret: 2, 1, 2
Hulk/Cov: 1, 3, 3

Anybody else see the problem here?
Switch the tank of the Hulk and the Mackinaw and you get

Skiff/Proc: 3, 2, 1
Mack/Ret: 2, 1, 3
Hulk/Cov: 1, 3, 2

This is more balanced, isn't it?
Suddenly people want to fleet mine instead of solo mine.
What a novel concept.

Let me fill you in with all my knowledge of mining ships.

Ok glad we had this chat.

Little late now to be having this conversation.

But basically The Hulk Stats didn't change at all it was used as a baseline.
Which means it is just as good now as it was then for null-sec mining.

The Mack got a serious upgrade from a paper tank to something actually a little better then the Hulk but at the cost of a smaller yield. (at least on a quick glance)

The skiff well what can you say about it supposed to have the best tank and worst yield.

What is REALLY interesting is the Signature radius.
Hulk (Pre-R) 150 // (Post-R) = 150 // (cruiser sig 130 ~ 160)
Mack (Pre-R) 120 // (Post-R) = 250 // (BC sig 200 ~ 300)
Skiff (Pre-R) 90 // (Post-R) = 200 // (Got me couldn't find anything with a quick search.)

So umm better tanks ????, well check the fine print on it cause CCP had some fun there.

Don't even get me started on the ICE.
Pretty Much everyone agrees ICE mining has to be done but it is the dryest thing to do in the game.
Well Trying to cut down on your time comes at a serious price of tank, so not sure there was any improvement there.

But like I said a little late to talk about it now.
And don't forget to read the fine print before choosing which mining ship you actually go with.

Hulk/ Coveter got no role bonus. You can put as much lipstick on that pig as you want. It won't change it. They need to add a 200% to Gang Assist effect for Hulk/ Covetor.

You aren't seeing this from a logistical perspective.

Covertor/ Hulk require Logistical support to move the Ore from the belts. Those accounts, ran as alts or ran as other people could be in Barges. When running a mining Ops, it is no different than running any Ops. You do a head count and you determine value by that. Three guys go on a roam, do they really need a Guardian? Of course not and so it is with mining.

You need a gang of 12-15 to justify a Coverter or Hulk as your mining platform. If that's where CCP intended to put the Hulk and Coveter, good but make it obvious with a sound role bonus that promotes large scale Mining Ops. When a few people or someone with 2 or 3 mining capable accounts log in to run a Mining session, they look at their Capsules in space and how much they will haul in how ever long the session runs. Hulk and Coveter are no longer on the table for that.

Even down a level. Speaking third party, I am not Sisohiv. She is a character in a video Game. She has Exhumer 5 and I have 2 other accounts that can run up to Coveter but I chose to get them each a Proc. Those Proc can mine a full hold of Ore, dock, undock, mine another load, dock, undock and be on the third in the time it takes me to mine one load in my Macki. The Macki actually only comes out about 15% above the Proc. Considering the SP difference I have between the characters involved, If I had to rewrite my characters, none of them would have Exhumer 5. I'd have to think hard about even putting Exhumer on them again.

Oh, I am seeing it from a Logistical perspective.
However the role bonus on the other barges is to equal out the strip miners. Not to 'give them their purpose'.
The Covetor/Hulk already are balanced yield wise. To make them a little more friendly to those 5 man gangs, I'd be fine with a small increase in their ore hold up to close to the Proc. But Yield wise they are in a good place, and don't need any kind of gang link bonus (Oh wait, that IS A YIELD BONUS IN A SNEAKY WAY) or anything else there.

Additionally Exhumer ONE is all that is needed for a Hulk now. Though all the Barges benefit from higher skill levels.

Not mad, disappoint.

I don't doubt it, but these things need to be repeated.
And repeated.
And repeated.