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NPC AI Adjustment: Does it solve anything?

Author
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#61 - 2012-12-20 03:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One

  • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.


Not true, i just tested it.
Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field.
My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.

Ugh
Mund Richard
#62 - 2012-12-20 03:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Spc One wrote:
  • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
Not true, i just tested it.
Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field.
My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.

Ugh

Read patchnotes veeery carefully again.
Visual aid:
Quote:
  • Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
  • Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
  • Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

    Surfin's PlunderBunny
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #63 - 2012-12-20 03:15:35 UTC
    Spc One wrote:

    • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.


    Not true, i just tested it.
    Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field.
    My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.

    Ugh


    Battleships will go for large drones, but everything else will too Big smile

    "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

    Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

    Alavaria Fera
    GoonWaffe
    #64 - 2012-12-20 03:24:16 UTC
    Mund Richard wrote:
    Spc One wrote:
    • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
    Not true, i just tested it.
    Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field.
    My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.

    Ugh

    Read patchnotes veeery carefully again.
    Visual aid:
    Quote:
  • Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
  • Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
  • Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

    You can use small drones on battleships safely Cool

    Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

    Spc One
    The Chodak
    Void Alliance
    #65 - 2012-12-20 03:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
    Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
    Spc One wrote:

    • Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.


    Not true, i just tested it.
    Machariel with 4 heavy drones ( Republic Fleet Berserker ) and only frigs + cruisers on field.
    My drones were aggroed instantly so ccp please check your patch, heavy drones should only get aggro from BS's.

    Ugh


    Battleships will go for large drones, but everything else will too Big smile
    You can use small drones on battleships safely Cool

    Again not true, my hobgoblins were also targeted by battleships.
    Spc One
    The Chodak
    Void Alliance
    #66 - 2012-12-20 03:58:19 UTC
    So basicly everything is the same as before, nothing changed.
    Katran Luftschreck
    Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
    #67 - 2012-12-20 05:04:02 UTC
    Instead of nerfing our drones, they should have just given NPCs drone of their own. Not like EoM doesn't use enough Arbitrators, after all. That would have made things more challenging for everyone equally, not just the drone captains.

    http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #68 - 2012-12-20 10:05:18 UTC
    I thought I'd try out some light drones after the "fix". So in Worlds Collide I flew the Drake in, wandered a long long way from the warp-in (having killed the Angel Spies with missiles and webifier). Released my drones: lost one within three seconds. Pulled the drones back in, and nothing bothered to aggro me.

    Before the Level One AI was added in, releasing drones would get you full room aggro. So this is definitely broken.
    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #69 - 2012-12-20 10:46:56 UTC
    Norrin Ellis wrote:
    For those of you who simply say sentries are the one-size-fits-all solution, please explain to me why CCP shouldn't just remove heavies from the game rather than make complicated AI changes? I mean, if heavies are useless or terribly inefficient pre-nerf and post-nerf, yet sentries are just perfect pre-nerf and post-nerf, wouldn't removing the heavies be the most rational solution?

    As for putting a web on a drone boat to make the sentries work in certain situations, I've already addressed that. I use a variety of drones so that I don't have to waste slots on things like webs.


    This is just incredible ignorance. EVE is not about PVE. Heavies are wonderful in close range combat. And I fully agree with Tippia and others who say that sentries have always been better for PVE.

    Embrace the sentries, they are simply put magnificient weapons of destruction, that allow many interesting tactics in PVP as well.

    Also, about your EWAR comment, yes you can use a web on your drone boat, and especially target painter. These increase your applied damage, which is pretty much the most important thing. Web and paint a target, and watch it get ripped to pieces by your drones. Paint a far away target and watch your sentries hit better.

    And they draw aggro. You can even control your drones with a painter.

    .

    Mund Richard
    #70 - 2012-12-20 11:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
    Roime wrote:
    And they draw aggro. You can even control your drones with a painter.
    Though personally, I feel nothing paints a target as primary like a broadside of 425 IIs Roll
    Heck, it's cycle time is shorter, painters take ages to turn off.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #71 - 2012-12-20 11:48:24 UTC
    So both is best, right? :)

    Painter does indeed have a very long cycle, in our PVE application, sleeper harvesting with sentry Domis, one cycle is normally enough. Also, very handy when your highs are full of RR and cap transfers, and you got a ton of drones assigned to you.

    .

    Rain6637
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #72 - 2012-12-20 13:28:38 UTC
    pilots used carriers with sentries to AFK farm. that was one item that was fixed by the added drone attention....... if you knew how much ISK per hour, you would not feel sorry for them
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #73 - 2012-12-20 13:39:54 UTC
    Magormor wrote:
    The drone AI made live easier for us. This issus is really only relivant to ships that never fit guns and like to AFK and let drones do the work.



    I shall remember to fit guns to my carrier next time i do lvl 5. WTF was i thinking, I mean just because 2 Target painters a heavy neut and an ecm burst STILL wasn't enough threat generation to keep my FIGHTERS from popping, I just should fit guns to that damn Thanny.

    Stupid me..
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #74 - 2012-12-20 13:41:03 UTC
    Spc One wrote:
    So basicly everything is the same as before, nothing changed.


    Yep, confirming nothing has changed.
    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #75 - 2012-12-20 14:42:07 UTC
    Jenn aSide wrote:
    Magormor wrote:
    The drone AI made live easier for us. This issus is really only relivant to ships that never fit guns and like to AFK and let drones do the work.



    I shall remember to fit guns to my carrier next time i do lvl 5. WTF was i thinking, I mean just because 2 Target painters a heavy neut and an ecm burst STILL wasn't enough threat generation to keep my FIGHTERS from popping, I just should fit guns to that damn Thanny.

    Stupid me..


    Was the intention to change the way NPCs work, but somehow in a way that players don't have to change anything?

    Don't get me wrong, resistance is the default human reaction to changes and it's ok. But consider the possibility that the eventual goal of CCP for pve is to change it completely, and this is just the beginning? Maybe soloable L5s in carriers with invulnerable drones is "broken" in their vision?

    Maybe the customer feedback from group pve in wormholes and incursions has been very positive, and they have come to the conclusion that bringing players together for pve leads to social bonding, stronger customer satisfaction and increased subscriptions, and they want to expand the concept of co-operative gameplay and make it available for wider audience, because it fits so perfectly in an MMO largely dependent on lively group dynamics.

    .

    masternerdguy
    Doomheim
    #76 - 2012-12-20 16:52:36 UTC
    I am using an alt to test the AI. My raven is having no issues completing any L4s and I've done several. My drones got shot once but I recalled it in time.

    I think it's fine.

    Things are only impossible until they are not.

    LHA Tarawa
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #77 - 2012-12-20 17:12:26 UTC
    Consider for a moment that the purpose of the change is to nerf the use of drone boats (specifically carriers) for running anoms.
    Nalha Saldana
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #78 - 2012-12-20 17:25:05 UTC
    What I don't get is why my salvage drones keep getting aggro when I'm on the field shooting stuff, aggro seems totally broken.
    MisterNick
    The Sagan Clan
    #79 - 2012-12-20 17:27:12 UTC
    I've not lost a single drone from my mission Domi to the new AI. Paying attention is a remarkable thing Blink

    "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."

    Norrin Ellis
    Doomheim
    #80 - 2012-12-20 19:59:21 UTC
    Anabelle Martinez wrote:
    Norrin Ellis wrote:
    Only an idiot is going to use anything other than large drones or sentries against a battleship, for example.


    I don't see myself as an idiot for using light scouts in my marauder. 425s don't make contact with fast frigs or spider drones inside 30km so a web and some light scouts do the job just fine. Can't say I've lost a drone so far since the changes but I I only pull them out for anything orbiting me than right back in the bay they go.

    What I mean is that when attacking battleships, a competent drone pilot is going to use heavies or sentries. Obviously, you can carry whatever loadout of drones suits you on your battleship. I carry several flights of drones of varying sizes myself, but if I'm going to attack a battleship with drones, I'm going to use the right ones for the job: heavies or sentries.