EVE New Citizens Q&A

Not sure which calcs you're using. This one shows normal materials (affected by ME) and extra materials (not affected by ME, not returned by reprocessing) separately. I think many of them do, so make sure you're looking at both the normal materials and the extra materials.

http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/

For the retriever ME0, that site shows

Tritanium 564,172
Pyerite 59,707
Mexallon 12,202
Isogen 7,844
Nocxium 1,731
Zydrine 444
Megacyte 86

Extra materials:
Tritanium 1,187,116
Pyerite 455,721
Mexallon 39,907
Isogen 26,869
Nocxium 1,826
Zydrine 446
Megacyte 177

Most of the calculators are outdated. Fuzzwork one as quoted above is right.

Some BPOs have base materials and extra materials. The reasons for extra materials are two: 1) to nerf items that are especially good for mineral compression, 2) to avoid mineral speculation with recent pathes. Retriever falls in second category (together with almost all cruiser BPOs).

You see, CCP buffed mining barges significantly in summer patch as well as increased the required minerals to build them. To avoid situations when someone would build bazillion of barges pre-patch and reprocess them right after to receive free minerals, CCP made all those additional minerals as "extra" - i.e. unrecoverable if you reprocess the item. The side effect is also that extra materials are not affected by ME research.

Hope that helps.

thanks guys, i understand now, much appreciated, its just hard to manufacture any ships at a profit i guess

Even after that, it's hard. Veteran manufacturers are using:

- maximum production efficiency skills
- researched blueprints (material efficiency)
- cheaper sources of minerals than the orders on the market
- factories in stations where they have high standings
- maximized trading skills for less taxes when selling
- stockpiles of product that they made long ago

In addition, for Tech 1 items you're also competing with all the mission people, who like to dump their loot on the market for cheap. Your Small Shield Extender I can't be more expensive than the slightly better Azeotropic version.

You won't be able to compete by selling at a trade hub. You may be able to compete by selling your ships at an entrance from 0.0 to lowsec empire, as things are sold for a higher markup there, but the volume will be lower.

I know ships seem cool to manufacture, but if your grandmother played EVE she'd also want to make ships. There is a lot of competition.

Manufacturing ships also requires a bigger ISK and skill point investment.

i.e. ship manufacturing is a very bad place to start.

Try items that EVERYBODY uses: ammo, scripts, rigs, modules (salvager, tractor beam, survey scanner, probes, probe launchers, mining lasers, etc.)

Basic Industry Skills

and how a newbie who started manufacturing should move his BC BS ? learn to fly them ? Thats a lot of SP which wont benefit directly the business .
Have them hauled ? Thats a big cut from the profit for a new player , also they cost a lot !

I really cant imagine someone with right skills doing bs on 10 lines non stop ... Thats a big capital , big money involved really come on ...

Making ammo isnt only about profit is about learning how it works , once he can handle it , he will already know whats best to build .

Actually that's not entirely right. The thing to remember is that unless you've got tons of people doing missions and salvaging all the all the time then you'll rarely see big stacks of meta gear for sale. Usually it's never more than two or three of any particular meta item in any area other than a major hub. Plus the casual mission runner is rarely thinking too much about the real value of an item, so they'll either underprice it too much (and it vanishes in an instant) or they overprice it too much (and it sits there collecting dust forever). So basically, meta loots drops aren't really anything to be feared.

An industrialist, on the other hand, doesn't even consider making stacks of less than a hundred of anything. They ram their BPOs to the max runs limit every time and then shove up hundred or thousands of items into market orders with a three months expiration date on every one. It's the opposite philosophy of the loot seller: The loot seller usually just wants instant gratification ISK, while the industrialist wants to see that steady stream of ISK coming in every day & every hour as her 50+ orders for five hundred of this and sixty thousand of that are slowly but surely being bought up.

Plus the industrialist will, by their nature, be paying closer attention to rival market prices and trying to build up a regular customer base. Trust me, when people know that they will always be able to buy all-you-can-eat quantities of their favorite ammo at the same place every day and at a fixed price... oh yeah, they become regular customers all right. And then they tell their friends. Now you've got more regular customers. And so on.

Only the most dedicated mission running groups that can actually scrape up literally hundreds of identical meta items per week pose any real threat to your profit margins. Because to be honest, when you've got a ship that fits eight turrets and there are only three of that awesome meta 4 gun to be found, and then you look and see several hundred of the plain old T1s for sale right over there... most people will just grab eight of the generic T1s rather than have to work with some weird imbalanced gun configuration.

Though you are absolutely correct about trade hubs. I don't see the logic in moving goods 10% faster if you can only get 50% of their actual value out of them. Quantity has power, but it takes time for that strategy to pay off. I suspect most trade hubs are fueled by pure impatience. I'm probably wrong but whatever.