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Jukebox Petition - Bring it back!

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Phedre Dulaara
Pleides Heavy Industries
#121 - 2012-12-14 07:26:13 UTC
Please count me in as well. I really miss the jukebox!

I had a custom playlist for myself, due to there being a couple tracks that I had trouble listening to.

CCP: Please bring the jukebox back. Allowing players more options is always preferable to limiting options.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#122 - 2012-12-14 09:06:04 UTC
DarkestHeart wrote:
[quote] If they ignore the thread, they cannot also ignore Twitter :)

Challenge accepted ;p

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
DarkestHeart
ItsMeCorp
#123 - 2012-12-14 12:02:33 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
[quote] If they ignore the thread, they cannot also ignore Twitter :)

Challenge accepted ;p


It doesnt need to be accepted, its already been done.

You may find it funny but that is, in one massive nut-shell, what is wrong with the current CSM and CCP's stance on players views on the game. You, as a CSM member, are here to represent us, the players, on what we think makes or breaks the game. There are many, many long-term players leaving the game due to the ignorance of CCP and CSM members pretending that the views of the players are insignificant and can simply be ignored.

What will it take for our views to be seen, for us to be taken seriously? A subscription peak of 40K? 30K? 20K? This petition has been active for over a week, and you, CSM Alek, are the first one to provide us with any kind of official acknowledgement on the forums.

Its an absolute disgrace. The first acknowledgement we get is taunting from a CSM member. Like I said, in a nut-shell that is everthing that is wrong with this situation.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2012-12-14 12:18:07 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
[quote] If they ignore the thread, they cannot also ignore Twitter :)

Challenge accepted ;p

What a shining example of the absolute joke CSM7 really is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2012-12-14 12:21:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
What a shining example of the absolute joke CSM7 really is.


I don't like Alekseyev at all but that was a perfect response to histrionic **** like this.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2012-12-14 12:26:46 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
What a shining example of the absolute joke CSM7 really is.


I don't like Alekseyev at all but that was a perfect response to histrionic **** like this.

Maybe it's histrionic because that's the only way that gets anybody's attention at all anymore.
If a large number of people (and I'm not just talking about the people in this thread, there have been scores of people in help chat complaining about the missing jukebox) want a feature back that was recently removed, don't they at least deserve a decent response from the committee that's supposed to be advocating player interests?

I get that CCP removed the jukebox because it was old and ****** code, but you can't just remove a feature lots of people use and not offer a reasonable replacement without upsetting these people. How hard would it have really been to code a new MP3 player?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-12-14 12:30:01 UTC
At the same time, why bother? Look at this thread - 10 days going, less than 80 people feeling this issue is serious enough to warrant action. And yet there's overly arrogant dares to "ignore" this issue followed up by petulant rage when a single CSM member says "ok". Calling this a tempest in a teacup is an insult to both tempests and teacups.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2012-12-14 12:36:05 UTC
I suppose you're right, although I'm not strictly going by this thread alone (which does have a pretty low participation rate) but what I've seen in the game. In any case I don't care enough to really continue arguing about it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2012-12-14 12:37:36 UTC
I get what you mean in general about lack of answers etc, but really, anything like this is all about picking your battles. This is just about the dumbest possible battle to pick.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#130 - 2012-12-14 12:43:00 UTC
I feel i likely speak for the majority of players when i say the following

I knew there was a jukebox, im fairly sure the last time i clicked on it was a number of years ago. if i dont want to listen to the ingame music i turn the music volume slider down. if want to listen to my own music i use one of the MANY free available players (i.e. winamp, spotify etc etc)

If you only want to listen to certain in game tracks they're on spotify.

Additionally CCP have stated the reason for the removal of the jukebox iirc it was basically legacy coding from the launch of eve, coding which they are currently going through removing and updating. If a feature is no longer widely used (jukebox) it is not worth the man hours recoding it, hours which can be better spent on improving quality of life in the game

tl;dr - Get over yourself, the majority don't care about the lack of jukebox or your argument
DarkestHeart
ItsMeCorp
#131 - 2012-12-14 13:32:07 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
I feel i likely speak for the majority of players when i say the following

I knew there was a jukebox, im fairly sure the last time i clicked on it was a number of years ago. if i dont want to listen to the ingame music i turn the music volume slider down. if want to listen to my own music i use one of the MANY free available players (i.e. winamp, spotify etc etc)

If you only want to listen to certain in game tracks they're on spotify.

Additionally CCP have stated the reason for the removal of the jukebox iirc it was basically legacy coding from the launch of eve, coding which they are currently going through removing and updating. If a feature is no longer widely used (jukebox) it is not worth the man hours recoding it, hours which can be better spent on improving quality of life in the game

tl;dr - Get over yourself, the majority don't care about the lack of jukebox or your argument


Its a fair statement to say the majority dont care about the JukeBox.

But this isnt about the majority is it? It's about a substantial number of players, and no matter how you wrap it up, there is a significant number of players that want it back - A lot dont know about this thread, and you can't spam in help chat which is where a lot of complaints are.

Should a minority suffer ofer the majority's choice? Isn't that the problem that society faces as a whole? Without this thread going onto a society based argument, its fair to say that each person has their own view and that as we are all patrons of this company, paying customers, all our views are valid.

Your points are fair, they are also valid - but they have been addressed by many players in earlier posts.

Not to mention this is also now about how we are treated as paying customers as well as CCP removing a good feature.

Regarding encoding - The music exists in exactly the same format as it did when the JukeBox existed, CCP simply removed the GUI. As I have stated in the first post and subsequent posts - the method of playing music is crud, it doesnt work. Another example of CCP implementing something about proper prior testing, and when players speak out about how crap it actually is, they ignore it.
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#132 - 2012-12-14 13:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: MainDrain
DarkestHeart wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
I feel i likely speak for the majority of players when i say the following

I knew there was a jukebox, im fairly sure the last time i clicked on it was a number of years ago. if i dont want to listen to the ingame music i turn the music volume slider down. if want to listen to my own music i use one of the MANY free available players (i.e. winamp, spotify etc etc)

If you only want to listen to certain in game tracks they're on spotify.

Additionally CCP have stated the reason for the removal of the jukebox iirc it was basically legacy coding from the launch of eve, coding which they are currently going through removing and updating. If a feature is no longer widely used (jukebox) it is not worth the man hours recoding it, hours which can be better spent on improving quality of life in the game

tl;dr - Get over yourself, the majority don't care about the lack of jukebox or your argument


Its a fair statement to say the majority dont care about the JukeBox.

But this isnt about the majority is it? It's about a substantial number of players, and no matter how you wrap it up, there is a significant number of players that want it back - A lot dont know about this thread, and you can't spam in help chat which is where a lot of complaints are.

Should a minority suffer ofer the majority's choice? Isn't that the problem that society faces as a whole? Without this thread going onto a society based argument, its fair to say that each person has their own view and that as we are all patrons of this company, paying customers, all our views are valid.

Your points are fair, they are also valid - but they have been addressed by many players in earlier posts.

Not to mention this is also now about how we are treated as paying customers as well as CCP removing a good feature.

Regarding encoding - The music exists in exactly the same format as it did when the JukeBox existed, CCP simply removed the GUI. As I have stated in the first post and subsequent posts - the method of playing music is crud, it doesnt work. Another example of CCP implementing something about proper prior testing, and when players speak out about how crap it actually is, they ignore it.


I wasnt refering to the encoding of the music, i was referring the actual coding behind the jukebox itself (iirc CCP explorer made a comment on this in the retribution feedback thread)

I will admit to being surprised by the number of players upset about the removal of the jukebox, but i dont feel its is a significant minority of players. I would imagine some of the players may not have even known about the jukebox until threads protesting about its removal started to pop up.

I wouldnt class the jukebox as a good feature, it was an underused extra no doubt required when it was first launched to provide music to the game, the changes in retribution i feel have actually improved on this situation.

Generally though i would consider we are well treated by CCP in terms of the amount and type of feedback we receive both on here and through twitter, this treatment and interaction has improved massively since i started playing 4 years ago and is something ive not seen from other MMOs

I will accept that some people want it back, but surely you would rather they continued to improve and introduce new features, ships and improve the general running of the game? (war against lag etc etc)

edit: I will however agree the CSM (Alex) response in this thread is far from helpful to the situation, a simple "this will be brought up at the summit" rather than "challenge accepted" regardless of whether it was made in a light hearted manner or not.
DarkestHeart
ItsMeCorp
#133 - 2012-12-14 13:46:13 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
I feel i likely speak for the majority of players when i say the following

I knew there was a jukebox, im fairly sure the last time i clicked on it was a number of years ago. if i dont want to listen to the ingame music i turn the music volume slider down. if want to listen to my own music i use one of the MANY free available players (i.e. winamp, spotify etc etc)

If you only want to listen to certain in game tracks they're on spotify.

Additionally CCP have stated the reason for the removal of the jukebox iirc it was basically legacy coding from the launch of eve, coding which they are currently going through removing and updating. If a feature is no longer widely used (jukebox) it is not worth the man hours recoding it, hours which can be better spent on improving quality of life in the game

tl;dr - Get over yourself, the majority don't care about the lack of jukebox or your argument


Its a fair statement to say the majority dont care about the JukeBox.

But this isnt about the majority is it? It's about a substantial number of players, and no matter how you wrap it up, there is a significant number of players that want it back - A lot dont know about this thread, and you can't spam in help chat which is where a lot of complaints are.

Should a minority suffer ofer the majority's choice? Isn't that the problem that society faces as a whole? Without this thread going onto a society based argument, its fair to say that each person has their own view and that as we are all patrons of this company, paying customers, all our views are valid.

Your points are fair, they are also valid - but they have been addressed by many players in earlier posts.

Not to mention this is also now about how we are treated as paying customers as well as CCP removing a good feature.

Regarding encoding - The music exists in exactly the same format as it did when the JukeBox existed, CCP simply removed the GUI. As I have stated in the first post and subsequent posts - the method of playing music is crud, it doesnt work. Another example of CCP implementing something about proper prior testing, and when players speak out about how crap it actually is, they ignore it.


I wasnt refering to the encoding of the music, i was referring the actual coding behind the jukebox itself (iirc CCP explorer made a comment on this in the retribution feedback thread)

I will admit to being surprised by the number of players upset about the removal of the jukebox, but i dont feel its is a significant minority of players. I would imagine some of the players may not have even known about the jukebox until threads protesting about its removal started to pop up.

I wouldnt class the jukebox as a good feature, it was an underused extra no doubt required when it was first launched to provide music to the game, the changes in retribution i feel have actually improved on this situation.

Generally though i would consider we are well treated by CCP in terms of the amount and type of feedback we receive both on here and through twitter, this treatment and interaction has improved massively since i started playing 4 years ago and is something ive not seen from other MMOs

I will accept that some people want it back, but surely you would rather they continued to improve and introduce new features, ships and improve the general running of the game? (war against lag etc etc)


Unfortunatly this thread has gone way off-topic, which of course I have caused to a certain extent as well.

The JukeBox was a good thread and enjoyed by many, but there are bugs with the new music system, really annoying bugs. Return the GUI for the JukeBox and fix the new system, job done - much less whining, much less bitching.

Happy people :)
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#134 - 2012-12-14 14:03:40 UTC
I have asked for an official response on twitter from the CSM (i'm Callum1787)

the response was simply "It's dead and gone" and "that's about as close as it's going to get"
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2012-12-14 14:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
DarkestHeart wrote:
Return the GUI for the JukeBox and fix the new system, job done - much less whining, much less bitching.

Happy people :)


10 days and 7 pages of *feedback* shouldn't be enough to make a dev turn their computer on, let alone do anything. Maybe next time pick a less ridiculous idea to get behind.

Edit - Snipped personal attack - ISD Suvetar

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-12-14 14:05:47 UTC
Well, I don't really care about the Jukebox, though I did use it fairly regularly to pick tracks that I was in the mood for.

However, having said that, it doesn't make much sense to remove a feature that you already spent time working on. The maintenance argument doesn't really ring true to me at all. What kind of maintenance do you need on a working feature that is separate from all other features?

I'm really having difficulty remembering any game developer, after spending time on a feature and that feature being in the game for many years, to just remove it altogether, and claiming that it is redundant because a 3rd party can do it? Further, if you are removing the jukebox, why not remove the notepad and calculator within EVE as well? Both of those are implemented within most operating systems by default.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't make much sense, logically, to just boom and remove it.
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#137 - 2012-12-14 14:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Snow Axe wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
Return the GUI for the JukeBox and fix the new system, job done - much less whining, much less bitching.

Happy people :)


10 days and 7 pages of *feedback* shouldn't be enough to make a dev turn their computer on, let alone do anything. Maybe next time pick a less ridiculous idea to get behind.


It's why i like this game! the Community know what they like, what they want and what they dont want changed, and they're more than happy to stand up and be heard to make sure it happens that way!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2012-12-14 14:09:24 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
The maintenance argument doesn't really ring true to me at all. What kind of maintenance do you need on a working feature that is separate from all other features?
...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't make much sense, logically, to just boom and remove it.


I think you'll find you're always going to struggle to make sense of something when you dismiss the given reason "just because".

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#139 - 2012-12-14 15:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Edit: Snipped personal attacks. - ISD Suvetar

The reasons for removal were clear and concise, the alternatives simple and spelled out for you.

Move along.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#140 - 2012-12-14 16:40:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
How hard would it have really been to code a new MP3 player?

I don't know, let's ask the people who code MP3 players. Oh, wait, it takes an entire team of developers to write/maintain one!

So, which team of CCP devs (and the features they're working on) would you want to sacrifice to have the jukebox back?

And, more importantly, is that sacrifice worth the marginal convenience you get from not running your own MP3 player in the background?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)