These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sierra Hotel
EVE University
Ivy League
#1321 - 2011-10-22 13:37:26 UTC
Here's another suggestion. While your making these changes to the CO's how about improving the UI for PI?
1. Make it possible to re-size the Science and Industry window so that it takes up less than 30% of your screen.
2. Make extractors capable of using the shift and alt keys like probes.
I'm sure others have suggested improvements they would like to see.
As far as the CO's one thing else I would like to see (I think it was mentioned in a round about way) is the ability to use contracts for the materials thus enabling courier contract between CO's. I mean what self respecting Industrialist wants to actually have to do the work? Just have someone haul your P1, P2, P3 to your final building planet and drop it off in the CO for you. This would also help with the Intel problem since people accepting courier contract will show up at different times and be from different corps.
Lili Lu
#1322 - 2011-10-22 14:11:06 UTC
Agree with all the comments that this is retardedly bad for lowsec, idiotic to ever contemplate in high sec, and rather stupid for null sec where all they need is more structures that either allow large alliances to gobble up assets (what happened to diminishing the current overlord/renter paradigm), or become just more structures to have to shoot.
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children
#1323 - 2011-10-22 14:34:55 UTC
I think it's a good concept, but with bad execution if it will go live with the specs as stated.
It will efectively ban most players to do PI in lowsec and low level WHs, due to the high cost towards reward of the customs offices, and the very low chances to be able to defend them at all.
An unprotected Custom office with just the reinforce timer to keep it from being destroyed right away, although as expensive as a small tower???
C'mon, I understand that you're being pushed toward making DUST somehow worthwhile, and that you want more action in lowsec and so on, but it is not going to work if you do it this way.
You'll reduce the subscriptions by people in small corps or with no corp whatsoever,and there's lots of them who don't havethe time or committment to be in a large organized group, but still enjoy the game in their own way.
Of course, Goons don't like them, of course... RollLol
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children
#1324 - 2011-10-22 15:02:14 UTC
Bock Uisen wrote:
Zarazor Haargrim wrote:
The end result will most likely be simply that lowsec becomes even less populated than at present - and that is some feat.

......

Basically a CCP initiated 'POSageddon'.


Problem: Lowsec isn't populated enough

CCP Solution: Make it more difficult to use.


That's my conclusion.

I moved to Low-Sec for PI as the profit was worth the risk, and losing a 100M+ ship from time to time is acceptable.

In the future, I'll pack out of Low-Sec, as my sector is Fw + Pirates + Goons roaming... so I do not give 1h of life expectancy to any undefended structure in any of the systems I work in (and no merc corp will defend that space to become targets to those roamers).

Haters gonna hate... and Grievers gonna have great time... shooting the only thing remaining in space, as there will be even less traffic in Low-Sec than currently. They will shoot the Customs, to try to draw targets out. Only real question to CCP is the %age of goods produced in Low-Sec currently, as this market source is going to dry.

I have no problem over fighting over the control of the Customs, which makes it a source of passive income for the Low-Sec lords (and link it BOTH WAYS to Sovereignty in Null), but having a chance of barring production from others will make PI in Low-Sec disappear, increasing the cost of PI goods again, closing POS across the board as they will again be more expensive.

Will people leave ? surely not, but inflation is the future, as Null produces for Null and High-Sec is overcrowded already... all actions on PI will make a direct action on prices of everything. But perhaps it is one more move from the Null-CSM that wants to add PI-goo to the current Moon-goo monies, and to do so, they need to kill the only competition. Corporate greed ?

Time will see, but that is a blow to Low-Sec, to try to push people to Dust514... My prediction will be that it is back to normal in 12-18 months after Dust settles back to nothingness. Then we'll be back to FiS.

p.s.: meanwhile, I have years of stockpiles of PI goods, so I'll make a lot of monies :)


Totally agreed.
I'ts bad business sense by CCP going on, still, but it's also just fair though as all the casual players didn't care much about the latest CSM elections, so they'll enjoy the consequeces even more...
Be ready, Customs'a'Geddon coming soon! Cool
Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1325 - 2011-10-22 15:28:49 UTC
Phantom, could you add that these structures are deployed by corporations, but do not allow shared corp access (even vials upgrades). Obviously a PCO 'corp hanger' should not be any larger than the normal allowance, but maybe we can have a tickbox ti allow corp member access to our PCOs? Items can only be moved into our own personal hanger from there hangers of others.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
#1326 - 2011-10-22 15:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks
Although I still believe the change will hit small producers, I'm in favor of it. Why ?

I can see the oportunities as well. Rippling effects through the chains...thats good for overall economy.
Strenghtening the effect of PI in T2 production is good, it's not only moon goo which counts. Smaller entities will be able to compete on PI field but they never can compete against Technetium overlords.

Ofc doing PI in crowded systems like Amamake or Old Man Star will be most probably impossible. Even medium frequent low-sec will be quite risky. But there is still some amount of quite dead low-sec. With prices going up , those who are willing to take the risk, will make quite a good profit.

Allowing PI in hi-sec will serve as a overall limit to all kind of exploitation , monopols etc. If the tax guys will become too greedy , hi-sec production will become profitable.

As one of those small producers I'll probably quit PI ...no tears, I'm looking for new opportunities. More complexity is good, more sandbox is good. CCP do it ! :-)

0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story 
Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1327 - 2011-10-22 15:32:43 UTC
Probably mentioned already, but rather than magically disappearing the current lowsec, null and WH COs, the just become 'abandoned' or something concord with the tax rate set the the same as the highsec COs. That way, players can remove and replace COs with PCOs as and when they are ready, removing all 'transition period' worries about PI interruption, low availability of gantries, BPOs, etc.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Dr Mercy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1328 - 2011-10-22 15:37:33 UTC
Dr Mercy wrote:
Probably mentioned already, but rather than magically disappearing the current lowsec, null and WH COs, the just become 'abandoned' or something concord with the tax rate set the the same as the highsec COs. That way, players can remove and replace COs with PCOs as and when they are ready, removing all 'transition period' worries about PI interruption, low availability of gantries, BPOs, etc.


Sorry for the triple post, but why not use the above method for highsec PCOs too? Just set a mandated 'concord minimum' the tax to ensure the encouragement to use lowsec rather than highsec? Along with no capacity to exclude reds, or neutrals, etc.

Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
pussnheels
Viziam
#1329 - 2011-10-22 17:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
So CCP here are 67 pages of feedback

Are you still reading and what are your conclusions

While the majority is in favor of the concept , it seems the impact it makes on low sec pi ( where most goods are extracted) seems to be overwhelming negative in its current form

will it be like it stands now or are you making changes

please let us know

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Sauraah
Voracious Violence
#1330 - 2011-10-22 17:48:41 UTC
Andre Coeurl wrote:

Be ready, Customs'a'Geddon coming soon! Cool


On the bright side of this mess between now and the change I will be stock piling my PI products in anticipation of a market spike.
Leocadminone
Gem Concordance
#1331 - 2011-10-22 18:00:17 UTC
Reality check time

* Customs Office
** Shield: 10,000,000
** Armor: 2,500,000
** Structure: 2,000,000

Regards
Omen


That would take a long time for a lone supercap pilot for anyone who may be wondering...



Those specs are comparable to a small POS - which I've had 4 low-skill alts in DESTROYERS manage to take down.


That is NOT going to be a tough target at all, given no defences and apparently no resists.



The availability of the blueprints as ONLY copies from CONCORD specifically (I don't count the FW stuff as very few folks bother with FW) makes the availability of these VERY limited and a PITA. The blueprints should also be available from AT LEAST one corp in each empire, since this IS affecting Empire space (lowsec) not just NulSec.


Where is the justification for the doubled tax rate on HighSec offices? Highsec PI is bloody low profit margin as it is and quite low income based on TOTAL time investment (don't forget you have to COLLECT the stuff, take it to market, and sell it), this will be enough to drive a LOT of folks out of it entirely.


Yet another "NOT THOUGHT OUT" concept from CCP, though at least this time you're giving us some time to point out the obvious issues you've somehow managed to overlook. Mabey, JUST MABEY, you might actually be starting to get a faint clue?


I won't comment on that joke about "we hope a new type of company" etc - if you meant that seriously, you MUST have been high when you posted it, or you're even more clueless than that riot-inciting post from Zulu was.

Others have already addressed the OBVIOUS "blob" issues, how the hell you missed THAT I totally fail to understand.
Kaaii
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
#1332 - 2011-10-22 18:46:09 UTC


67 pages and I didn't see this asked......



how many runs does the BPC have?


Seems like it will be a bottle neck with the 1-3-5-9 convention being used.
Holy One
Privat Party
#1333 - 2011-10-22 18:52:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
Constructive criticism: you're terrible. Quit.

Unconstructive criticism: in the edit.

Edit: Hopefully ccp will just ban me from their terrible game so I can stop being such a victim.

Edit edit: Can't wait for tier 3 bc gais! Roll

:)
Circumstantial Evidence
#1334 - 2011-10-22 20:11:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Circumstantial Evidence
I much prefer the type of constructive criticism offered in Leocadminone's recent post, to (what was) some name-calling offered by Holy One. [Edit: Props for the edit!]

CCP Phantom has compiled a list of player's concerns for the dev team, in this message on page 61.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=222897#post222897
Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#1335 - 2011-10-23 01:56:52 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
all the reasons this new idea for COs is bad

What?

Better idea: Don't fix what isn't broken.

More FiS, less FarmVille please ^^

Cerulean Ice, Professor, E-UNI
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1336 - 2011-10-23 02:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
Mara Rinn wrote:

The coming experiment will show that planetary or orbital defences are an absolute necessity: even if such a defence is a shield generator on the surface which requires either orbital bombardment or a DUST invasion to shut down. The sad truth of the matter is that any sufficiently determined null sec alliance will be able to wipe out all low sec customs offices as a matter of routine. Unless the purpose of PI is to hand income to null sec on a silver platter, balance requires some means of preventing capital fleets taking away your CO like a thief in the night. A reinforcement timer is not the answer.


Thats actually a really good point. The only thing about this that makes any sense whatsoever is if CCP is planning on making it possible to place a shield generator (to protect POCO) on the planet surface, and the only way to shut this down is a DUST invasion force Idea

Edit: Except of course that i'm sure CCP has stated that DUST is null sec only at this stage, so why low and wh? Maybe i'm just reading to much logic into an illogical idea.
Elmis
The ill-advised
Hermit Collective
#1337 - 2011-10-23 02:54:33 UTC
I just wanted to say that I am really excited by this proposed change. I have various concerns – all of which have already been raised such as the ability to solo / ninja PI outside of Empire, and ensuring low sec PI continues to be viable. But more important –the basic concept of putting this sort of infrastructure into the hands of the player is very cool, and adds a new and real dynamic to the game for both industrialists and PVPers.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#1338 - 2011-10-23 07:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Oh please, for the sake of myself and every other corp/alliance leader, don't give us yet another thing we have to mess around with roles on!

While I actually DO agree that planetary customs offices should be available to be anchored for corporations, ALSO PERMIT them to be anchored as PERSONAL. Like we do with GSCs...

I'm already flooded with members asking if they can have "roles" to do the customs offices for themselves, and the last thing I want to do is give everyone the same roles that affect our POSs, roles limited to only the very most trusted members.

Besides the security issue (and the hair-pulling I'll do with this), frankly, there's no way my corporation can purchase, anchor, and manage POCOs for right around 90 different planets that my various members are using for PI in wormhole and NPC null sec space. While my members are capable of paying for POCOs for their "own" planets, they sure don't want to pay for a structure that they can't take with them should they move to another corporation. I don't need more of my members spawning off into single-player corps just because they want to anchor a structure...

Planetary Interaction when it was first released was quite specifically intended to be something *anyone* can do, with or without corp support. I do like the idea that we'll be able to collect miniscule taxes, I like the idea of something that has to be built and managed by the players of Eve. I like that they can be attacked! But cutting out the individuality of PI is not thought out well at all. Fortunately, there is a simple way to both create another corporate asset AND at the same time maintain the individual mini-businesses currently enjoyed by many single players: Let POCOs be anchorable BOTH corporate AND personal. Let it be up to the individual OR the corporation to manage POCOs.

While you are at it, please rethink the build cost. I find it odd that something that has the hit points of about a small pos is estimatedly nearly three times the cost of a small pos, without any defensive capabilities.

I do like that it's available through FW because I think it's a nice boost to FW stores. Might have to roll an alt into a FW corp :)

Edit: Written while I was still Director of Sephray Industries, Inc.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Scarlett Ninja
Section 5
#1339 - 2011-10-23 09:24:48 UTC
Ooo.....CCP! over here, I got a great idea!

Why not make it so you can only do PI if you are wearing a monacle, make a new tier 3 product at the same time, GOLD Ammo, that you can sell for real money!

I'm sure these simple changes would be happily accepted by all EVE players and CCP themselves!
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1340 - 2011-10-23 10:20:03 UTC
Cerulean Ice wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
all the reasons this new idea for COs is bad

What?

Better idea: Don't fix what isn't broken.

More FiS, less FarmVille please ^^





pi needs to be intresting not a must do, mind numbing, dull, repetative, time sink of a job.

everyone i know that does any pi, quits after 1-2 months max as its not worth it for teh time spent(i do get a few people like it, i dont know why)

fix pi first before adding stuff that makes it more of a job and not a fun thing to do. it coudl be awesom, but its far far from it currently

OMG when can i get a pic here