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PVE, Drones, The new AI and You

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#441 - 2012-12-13 05:34:03 UTC
I think someone just tried to insult me for my drone sp before going on a rant about how they cant stop their drone from dying while mine are still alive and well...
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#442 - 2012-12-13 05:42:14 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
Oh, it was tested. And feedback was given. And they pushed it anyway.

EDIT: Posters above mean that maybe CCP doesn't want us to solo level 4 missions.


and CCP maintains the course....



theyre good at that "listen to what they do not what they say"
theyre not so good at learning from their mistakes

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#443 - 2012-12-13 05:44:12 UTC
Tanthalassa wrote:
Well, I am sorry if you feel inferior with your 12kk sp, otherwise you wouldn't read it that way.


Actually, I don't, I consider the fact that I am clearly doing better at EVE than you are with lower skills kinda speaks volumes about who's "inferior", particularly after you were the one who implied that lesser skills = unqualified to speak on the topic with your initial rage post.

Are you always this hypocritical and illogical?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#444 - 2012-12-13 05:45:20 UTC
so drones are worthless now other than to be used to throw at the mobs to escape is what youre saying? lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2012-12-13 05:50:24 UTC
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
If soloing, what is the counter measure for the Serpentis damping now? Because "disposable drones" is not really an option or a viable strategy in my opinion. I'm happy to admit my ignorance if anybody has a great counter measure.

Excellent. Then I would advise you check out the marketplace for four new skills so you may reduce your ignorance:

Magnetometric Sensor Compensation;

Gravimetric Sensor Compensation;

Ladar Sensor Compensation;

& Radar Sensor Compensation

You will find what ships they best suit in the skill explanations.

You mean ignorance like:

Saying that Sensor Compensation skills will help against sensor dampening? Just a hint - they don't. Sensor strength only affects the likelihood of being jammed. Sensor dampeners, however, decrease lock-range.

You, sir, are a full-blown moron. I would suggest you stop making vaguely condescending posts on topics you clearly do not know **** about.


Yes, raging at people who are wrong instead of just explaining why they're wrong is bound to get a positive reaction.

Being wrong about something in EVE =/= being a moron. Morons are those people with tiny IQs who jump to conclusions about people they know nothing about. Like yourself, for example. I have since discovered that these skills don't affect sensor dampening, and I'm happy to retract and admit I was wrong. See, that's what smart people do, they admit when they're wrong in the face of evidence. A moron would continue to argue, however, that they were right, evidence notwithstanding.

Or, alternatively, just call someone a moron because they made a mistake. That's a pretty moronic thing to do as well.


It's funny, but every time you are involved in a discussion, the following steps inevitably happen, in this order:

1. You say something incredibly stupid in a condescending manner.
2. Someone calls you out on it.
3. You defend your incredibly stupid position due to astounding ignorance.
4. Someone calls you out on being a moron.
5. You claim people are jumping to conclusions.

So to make this clear: No, we are not jumping to conclusions. There is a pattern of you acting like a moron, so arriving at the conclusion that you are indeed a moron is sound logical deduction. Innit, Sir "I fit small guns on battleships, so everything's okay" Pollard.


Yes, and yet, you're selectiveness of quoting my less-brilliant ideas indicates only that you're happy to ignore the better ones, and continue to whine and call people stupid for the simple fact that they disagree with you.

Once again, not knowing everything about EVE =/= moron. I will go you round for round in particle and quantum physics, language, and biochemistry, and win every time. Moron implies low intelligence, and I assure you, I am not low on intelligence. I actually already understood why mixing guns on ships is a bad idea, but everyone else was shitposting so I thought I'd join in. Fact is, I'd already been doing level 4s with a mate using the method I explained in a very recent post which you have quite happily ignored in lieu of cherrypicking my less-brilliant suggestions for the sake of calling me a moron because your tiny panties are all bunched up.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#446 - 2012-12-13 05:51:13 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Thank goodness for the "hide" icon next to Pollard's posts. Enabling this option has saved my forum IQ from a precipitous drop.


No, I think you were actually saved from a drop by it already being rock bottom - can't get much lower than that Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ashley Eoner
#447 - 2012-12-13 05:55:48 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Tanthalassa wrote:
I gotta love how baltec and his stripe-faced trolling pal post in this thread.
Hmm..

They had several EWAR suggestions, working to variably questionable degrees, and while I personally didn't agree with any of them, my own solution is also using EWAR, go figure. Roll

RR module on a ship means one less gun used in most cases, which is sub-optimal as far as mission completion time goes, aye.
But that starts to go into the "drones as ammo" discussion.

The split weapon system trouble is indeed troublesome, but requires a thread dedicated unto itself, and (as I quite imagine there were a few rounds of it) even that may not help much.

Removing the aggressive stance on drones would have a funny side-effect on fighting Guristas...
Or maybe not, living in gurista space, it has been lately a lot less worse than I thought it would be.
Sensor comp skill at IV.


You didn't even mention the parts where they suggest downsizing guns in L4s to be better able to track/hit smaller ships, that he runs them not for the isk (efficience) but because he likes to shoot stuff and anyone doing it just for the isk is playing the wrong game, oh and suggesting the use of the caldari ewar for a caldari toon (take pride in your race!) against rats when there is too much hostile ewar incoming, would have loved to see him provide a fit on battleclinic, and then the replies to it.


Actually, for people that are genuinely looking for solutions, I've provided my best one a few times. I'm not sure if I offered it here, on this thread, but I'm pretty sure I have given a hint of it. I have held it back for the most part because I'm pretty sure people aren't actually interested in trying new things and just want their comfy old level 4 missions back or something to complain about, but change happens, deal with it or leave.

And that hint is, the new AI is not favouring your drones, it's favouring targets of similar size. If you fly into a mission solo in a BS and launch drones, the frigs are going to prefer to go after your drones instead of your BS.

I'm sure people would rather complain about it than actually put some thought into it, though, so I'll explain it verbatim:

Level four missions are now best done in pairs. I say pairs, because one BS with a score of drones and one fast active-tanked frigate to draw NPC frigate aggro works every time. You don't even need to exploit this "aggro bug" I keep hearing about. Me and a mate have done it this way for six level 4 missions and lost one drone, total, and that was because he launched his drones before my dual rep incursus took aggro, and even then i still took most of the aggro. Frig pilot hits AB and DC, picks an anchor, orbits at top speed and picks off frigate targets of opportunity that stray within weapons range. Meanwhile, BS pilot deploys drones to actively hunt down frigate targets while drawing medium and large NPC aggro and returning fire. Once all frigs are destroyed, all attention is turned to NPC mediums and larges and everything dies quickly and efficiently, thus maximising isk/hour for both pilots involved and taking minimal losses. With the active tanked speed incursus and high frig skills, i haven't had to bail for repairs once, maintained the majority of frigate aggro to leave drones free and un-aggroed to actively engage NPC frigates.

As for EWAR - same tactic. Frigate draws small aggro, BS draws large, make EWAR targets primaries for drones, then once EWAR is dead, business as usual. Additionally, the new skills DO help against ECM NPCs. As for sensor dampening, most of that is delivered by frigates, which will be aggroing your frigate, leaving the BS to still establish targets and apply drones.

All the suggestions I've made are for people who insist on doing it solo. I have been trying to help, thinking outside the box, but all my suggestions have been shot down in mud. But did anyone else have any better ideas? Was anyone really trying to think of better ideas? You don't like my ideas, don't use them. But mock them before you've even tried them? Yep, very mature. Very constructive. Glad to see people are capable of thinking on their feet instead of just whining on the forums... oh, wait...

Aggro defect bug whatever..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421


Be better off just running the second toon in real battleship with t1 drones.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#448 - 2012-12-13 05:58:34 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

Aggro defect bug whatever..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421


Be better off just running the second toon in real battleship with t1 drones.


all that says to me is "yeah we're pushing forward anyways. Your feedback means **** to us. and if you could come in on Saturday..."

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2012-12-13 06:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
ashley Eoner wrote:

Aggro defect bug whatever..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421


Be better off just running the second toon in real battleship with t1 drones.


Maybe. Our method works well, though, so I wouldn't be inclined to agree with "better" until we tried it. It would be less cost effective - battleships are expensive, frigates aren't, and even if the frigate pilot loses a ship (which shouldn't happen if they're tanking well), it's easy enough to have another one in reserve.

That post about the "bug" still doesn't appear to mention anything about drones, so I'm still running on the assumption that, regarding drones, the AI is working as intended. That is, until we get some clear communication from CCP... but even then, their silence on the drone issue but willingness to address known bugs with NPCs speaks fair volumes about the issue, IMO. I may be wrong, though, and I'll just wait and see.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#450 - 2012-12-13 06:03:18 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
Dean Clarke wrote:
A very fundamental part of the game has been broken. And yes, it is a game breaking issue for most drone users.

Not only that, but an "entire race" has been nerfed out of proportion.

Really, nothing much to discuss. It needs to be fixed ASAP.


No.....
While I agree that drones badly need to be updated, these changes should stay.
This game has enough problems with static content, hopefully this is the first step in making Eve an interesting game to play.


Indeed I am digging the new AI now that it's no longer ridiculously dumb about retargeting anything new to the room. Once they fix the un-nerfed ECM/dampener spam, the room pulls, and the aggressive drone killing the changes will be for the better.


Or more to the point, once they fix all the stuff they should have fixed before they threw drone boats under the bus, it will be fine.

Considering how much off penalty drone boats take for being drone boats, you would think they would have done it in the right order.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#451 - 2012-12-13 06:17:52 UTC
Why are people so upset about the new AI changes? I still throw out my drones & leave them out & they never die.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Morar Santee
#452 - 2012-12-13 06:23:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Yes, and yet, you're selectiveness of quoting my less-brilliant ideas indicates only that you're happy to ignore the better ones, and continue to whine and call people stupid for the simple fact that they disagree with you.

Once again, not knowing everything about EVE =/= moron. I will go you round for round in particle and quantum physics, language, and biochemistry, and win every time. Moron implies low intelligence, and I assure you, I am not low on intelligence. I actually already understood why mixing guns on ships is a bad idea, but everyone else was shitposting so I thought I'd join in. Fact is, I'd already been doing level 4s with a mate using the method I explained in a very recent post which you have quite happily ignored in lieu of cherrypicking my less-brilliant suggestions for the sake of calling me a moron because your tiny panties are all bunched up.


So what you are trying to tell me is:

You are not actually stupid, you just happen to act like a moron more often than not.

Bubba.. I'm not sure that makes it any better. And while I can appreciate that you want to compare e-peen sizes... I just have no vested interest in your person, other than pointing out your condescending attitude happened to be oddly misplaced every time I had the misfortune to come across one of your posts.
If that's any help: I will trust your word that you are the bigger ****.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2012-12-13 06:25:49 UTC
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Yes, and yet, you're selectiveness of quoting my less-brilliant ideas indicates only that you're happy to ignore the better ones, and continue to whine and call people stupid for the simple fact that they disagree with you.

Once again, not knowing everything about EVE =/= moron. I will go you round for round in particle and quantum physics, language, and biochemistry, and win every time. Moron implies low intelligence, and I assure you, I am not low on intelligence. I actually already understood why mixing guns on ships is a bad idea, but everyone else was shitposting so I thought I'd join in. Fact is, I'd already been doing level 4s with a mate using the method I explained in a very recent post which you have quite happily ignored in lieu of cherrypicking my less-brilliant suggestions for the sake of calling me a moron because your tiny panties are all bunched up.


So what you are trying to tell me is:

You are not actually stupid, you just happen to act like a moron more often than not.

Bubba.. I'm not sure that makes it any better. And while I can appreciate that you want to compare e-peen sizes... I just have no vested interest in your person, other than pointing out your condescending attitude happened to be oddly misplaced every time I had the misfortune to come across one of your posts.
If that's any help: I will trust your word that you are the bigger ****.


Are you still raging at me? Honestly, you seem only capable of slinging invectives than having a discussion of any kind, hence why condescension is called for - it's all you're worth to me.

And wtf is "bubba"? Are you hitting on me?

Awkward Shocked

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2012-12-13 06:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why are people so upset about the new AI changes? I still throw out my drones & leave them out & they never die.

Are they getting any aggro? Using Ewar? RR? Solo?
Just did a mission and had a hobb II die when recalled from 20km away. Shields were near alpha'd. Started getting aggro as soon as drones fired on the frigate. Drone durability 4. No bonus to drone HP on the hull. Would a TP be able to draw them off?
Morar Santee
#455 - 2012-12-13 06:32:28 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Yes, and yet, you're selectiveness of quoting my less-brilliant ideas indicates only that you're happy to ignore the better ones, and continue to whine and call people stupid for the simple fact that they disagree with you.

Once again, not knowing everything about EVE =/= moron. I will go you round for round in particle and quantum physics, language, and biochemistry, and win every time. Moron implies low intelligence, and I assure you, I am not low on intelligence. I actually already understood why mixing guns on ships is a bad idea, but everyone else was shitposting so I thought I'd join in. Fact is, I'd already been doing level 4s with a mate using the method I explained in a very recent post which you have quite happily ignored in lieu of cherrypicking my less-brilliant suggestions for the sake of calling me a moron because your tiny panties are all bunched up.


So what you are trying to tell me is:

You are not actually stupid, you just happen to act like a moron more often than not.

Bubba.. I'm not sure that makes it any better. And while I can appreciate that you want to compare e-peen sizes... I just have no vested interest in your person, other than pointing out your condescending attitude happened to be oddly misplaced every time I had the misfortune to come across one of your posts.
If that's any help: I will trust your word that you are the bigger ****.


Are you still raging at me? Honestly, you seem only capable of slinging invectives than having a discussion of any kind, hence why condescension is called for - it's all you're worth to me.

And wtf is "bubba"? Are you hitting on me?

Awkward Shocked


I thought you wanted to "go [me] round for round in [...] language". Is it already on?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2012-12-13 07:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Morar Santee wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Yes, and yet, you're selectiveness of quoting my less-brilliant ideas indicates only that you're happy to ignore the better ones, and continue to whine and call people stupid for the simple fact that they disagree with you.

Once again, not knowing everything about EVE =/= moron. I will go you round for round in particle and quantum physics, language, and biochemistry, and win every time. Moron implies low intelligence, and I assure you, I am not low on intelligence. I actually already understood why mixing guns on ships is a bad idea, but everyone else was shitposting so I thought I'd join in. Fact is, I'd already been doing level 4s with a mate using the method I explained in a very recent post which you have quite happily ignored in lieu of cherrypicking my less-brilliant suggestions for the sake of calling me a moron because your tiny panties are all bunched up.


So what you are trying to tell me is:

You are not actually stupid, you just happen to act like a moron more often than not.

Bubba.. I'm not sure that makes it any better. And while I can appreciate that you want to compare e-peen sizes... I just have no vested interest in your person, other than pointing out your condescending attitude happened to be oddly misplaced every time I had the misfortune to come across one of your posts.
If that's any help: I will trust your word that you are the bigger ****.


Are you still raging at me? Honestly, you seem only capable of slinging invectives than having a discussion of any kind, hence why condescension is called for - it's all you're worth to me.

And wtf is "bubba"? Are you hitting on me?

Awkward Shocked


I thought you wanted to "go [me] round for round in [...] language". Is it already on?


I said "language", not "jibberish"

Anyway, go read something for a little bit of perspective on why your hostility is in no way constructive and will solve nothing. In fact, the way people are complaining, I wouldn't blame CCP for ignoring the lot of you (or the majority, some people are actually being reasonable). In particular on that link:

"(4) Remember that other people are rational. If you find yourself confused why other players would do something in this way or that way or even at all, the answer is unlikely to be "because they're stupid". It's far more likely that they know something about what they're doing that you don't. It's also possible that they genuinely don't know something you do. That doesn't make them stupid or hateful, it just means they're unaware of some aspect of the game that they've not considered. Further, make sure ideas that you're proposing or objections that you're making don't rely on people being irrational and acting against their interests."

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tanthalassa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#457 - 2012-12-13 07:48:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I think someone just tried to insult me for my drone sp before going on a rant about how they cant stop their drone from dying while mine are still alive and well...
You two cannot read clearly. I don't have problems with my drones, my sentries are fine, but I don't appreciate that I have to undergo RTS-type micromanagement to survive in my gallente drone boat, while somebody can do same or superior type of dps at much better range with a press of single hotkey.

No, I don't see why I have to crosstrain to Nightmare, which you suggested multiple times. In any other MMO that would be a "reroll" suggestion. And my amount of drone SP does not imply any superiority, it is merely the amount of time invested into it versus amount of usability that I can get out of it. I.e. your gunnery SP amount most likely would trump mine. I'll give you a hint - I got sub 100 dps with my turrets. If one had most of their offense in the drones as primary weapon system, now they are pigeonholed into multiboxing, or running with a team mate, or switching to other race ships. That's what you probably are going to call "adaptation."

You guys just conveniently skip over "drone-boats, dedicated drone users" and if you think you read between the lines - nice work of imagination, just stay ignorant as always.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#458 - 2012-12-13 07:52:13 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
They overdid it with the drone aggro in L4s, its nearly impossible to scrape off scramming frigs in a BS, also the domi, ishtar, gila and rattlesnake are now completely worthless for missions or complex running, or any anom with frigates.

the EWAR is the worst bit. 10 entire regions of nullsec just became nearly worthless to ratters (barring severe overcrowding of forsaken hubs). Havens and sanctums in gurista rat space are impossible due to the massive amounts of ECM and they are impossible in Blood Raider space due to insane neuts (a blood raider sanctum has soo much neuting power now that the rats can neut out a FREAKING TITAN in less than 1 minute).

Gurista and Blood Raider complexes are now impossible even with logi support as the rats spread their neuts and jams around to make your logi useless, unless you bring a blob sized fleet into the site. Its worse than incursions by a lot, incursion rats only focused their EWAR on the primary rather than spreading it around.


Didn't you read? Fit some 220mm cannons on your titan and you are set Lol

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-12-13 07:59:26 UTC
Tanthalassa wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I think someone just tried to insult me for my drone sp before going on a rant about how they cant stop their drone from dying while mine are still alive and well...
You two cannot read clearly. I don't have problems with my drones, my sentries are fine, but I don't appreciate that I have to undergo RTS-type micromanagement to survive in my gallente drone boat, while somebody can do same or superior type of dps at much better range with a press of single hotkey.

No, I don't see why I have to crosstrain to Nightmare, which you suggested multiple times. In any other MMO that would be a "reroll" suggestion. And my amount of drone SP does not imply any superiority, it is merely the amount of time invested into it versus amount of usability that I can get out of it. I.e. your gunnery SP amount most likely would trump mine. I'll give you a hint - I got sub 100 dps with my turrets. If one had most of their offense in the drones as primary weapon system, now they are pigeonholed into multiboxing, or running with a team mate, or switching to other race ships. That's what you probably are going to call "adaptation."

You guys just conveniently skip over "drone-boats, dedicated drone users" and if you think you read between the lines - nice work of imagination, just stay ignorant as always.


Oh noes! Now you have to actually work for your income?? How absurdly horrid!!

FYI, this isn't "any other MMO". If you want "any other MMO", there are plenty to choose from.

But honestly, and if we're going to try to be mature about this, if you want to run complicated mission sites properly, specialising in only one ability is probably a fool's errand - being able to multirole so you can change it up when the tactical situation calls for it would probably be a wiser course of action. I did offer an idea above, which I think you've skipped over, that explains how a mate of mine and I have been double-teaming level 4 mission sites without drones taking any aggro (for the most part).

But based on what parts of the AI CCP have addressed, concerning bugs, it's very telling that they have been very silent about drones. They may yet have something to say about it, but there's no point in stomping feet and making demands of them. Can't blame CCP for ignoring the tantrums tbh.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#460 - 2012-12-13 07:59:32 UTC
Tanthalassa wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I think someone just tried to insult me for my drone sp before going on a rant about how they cant stop their drone from dying while mine are still alive and well...
You two cannot read clearly. I don't have problems with my drones, my sentries are fine, but I don't appreciate that I have to undergo RTS-type micromanagement to survive in my gallente drone boat, while somebody can do same or superior type of dps at much better range with a press of single hotkey.

No, I don't see why I have to crosstrain to Nightmare, which you suggested multiple times. In any other MMO that would be a "reroll" suggestion. And my amount of drone SP does not imply any superiority, it is merely the amount of time invested into it versus amount of usability that I can get out of it. I.e. your gunnery SP amount most likely would trump mine. I'll give you a hint - I got sub 100 dps with my turrets. If one had most of their offense in the drones as primary weapon system, now they are pigeonholed into multiboxing, or running with a team mate, or switching to other race ships. That's what you probably are going to call "adaptation."

You guys just conveniently skip over "drone-boats, dedicated drone users" and if you think you read between the lines - nice work of imagination, just stay ignorant as always.


The carriers and rattlesnakes arnt having issues where I live either. Sounds like you dont like the fact that you now have to look after your drones rather than just letting them loose and going semi afk.