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PVE, Drones, The new AI and You

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Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#381 - 2012-12-11 15:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:

Anywho, blah blah. Would be nice to see someone from CCP chime in on the whole drone/AI issue. It's been almost a week since the patch, and mum's the word.
Admit the mistake of rushing an untested feature? I wouldn't count on it.


I'd settle for "what's next?" answered. If drone overhaul is in the pipe, I would care less about the AI issues since drone review would probably fix most of the issues. If drones are going to be ignored for another 5 years, and dorky AI is here to stay, I'll cross-train some more. But it would be nice to know.

Although in retrospect I understand why they're completely avoiding commenting on this whole issue. I glanced at the Retribution Issues thread, and there's soooo many bugs in this release that AI and drones are most likely very, very far down the priority list right now.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#382 - 2012-12-11 16:15:32 UTC
The best workaround - paying more attention, changing tactics.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#383 - 2012-12-11 16:29:19 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
The best workaround - paying more attention, changing tactics.


Thank you very much for your contribution!

(back home, doing Jean Luc Picard double-facepalm thing, because a single facepalm just won't do)
Mister Sherman
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2012-12-11 16:40:43 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
The drone tactic saved my Rokh earlier.

Doing The Assault, level 4, Serpentis...


See, the problem isn't with the drones, but with this mission in general. Anytime I've ever run this mission, the Sensor Dampening simply makes this mission unbearable. Probably best to pass on it.
TOPSTER
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#385 - 2012-12-11 16:47:29 UTC
Edey wrote:
Now that I can't do L4 missions with my drones, can I have a skills remap?

No, this is not a joke or a troll. I really want a remap, this is fair.
In any other game when devs nerf something to hell they give you a respec so you have a choice.
Having mostly drone skills cuts your ability to do anything right now.


Well since I have 20.3 Million SP in Drones that would be pretty interesting.....Shocked
Twopah
Space Mermaids
#386 - 2012-12-12 05:57:14 UTC
PvE fits start with 80% resists. Try heading to a mission with base T1 resists, see how long before your ship is noctis food. CCP simply didn't think this one through.
Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#387 - 2012-12-12 08:13:04 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
The drone tactic saved my Rokh earlier.

Doing The Assault, level 4, Serpentis... upon warping in the entire room aggroed immediately (that's about 30 frigates, 30 battlecruisers and 10 battleships), 6 sensor dampeners dropped my locking range down to 18k and then the dampers flew around me at 30k, whilst two frigs came in and warp scrambled me. The moment I let out the drones to blow up the scramblers everything, except the scrambling frigs, shot the drones and started popping them. That left me with two options:

1. Sit there and die
2. Drop all my drones and pray to the almighty God of pure luck that either my drones could take the scramble frigs off before they all blew up, or that the scrambling frigs would switch targets.

By pure luck, option 2 happened just as my hull was buckling, and my brave Warrior II's stayed behind and sacrificed themselves whilst I, now looking like a giant flaming fireball, went to go and pay a 9 million isk repair bill, having been completely unable to kill or even lock onto a target in that mission.

A friend earlier actually spent about 2 hours doing a mission in his tengu because for only about 30 seconds every 10 minutes he was able to get a lock because of all the jammers.

The new AI is very nice, it makes things more fun, but I don't think these mission were play-tested to make sure they were still doable solo before it was applied.


Dude. Next time save 9 million ISK and use hull reppers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#388 - 2012-12-12 10:10:54 UTC
Twopah wrote:
CCP simply didn't think this one through.


Or maby, just maby, they did think it through and decided that these missions were far too easy and the reason they arnt answering your crying foul is because they intended this to happen.
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#389 - 2012-12-12 10:23:44 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:

Now they change the AI so newbs can't do a thing in space.


I just picked this one as an example of the twisted minds of hisec mission-runners.

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Check that and realize that missions are just one small area of the game.

Don't you guys understand that this game is an MMO? AI is not the one you play with, it's stupid, boring and repetitive. EVE universe is full of clever minds, funny people, arseholes and most importantly potential space friends, who create the most amazing gameplay option available in any game.

Go play with them, and against them.
Manes Avatarr
Superfast
#390 - 2012-12-12 10:30:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Or maby, just maby, they did think it through and decided that these missions were far too easy and the reason they arnt answering your crying foul is because they intended this to happen.

Or maybe CCP wanted to enhance difficulty for L4s in general but came up with just screwing Gallente only?
As Minmatar i really dont care, every frig just dies quickly to my rusty guns. And i can just skip these assigments when i land in center of a Serpentis' party which are unplayable for any faction.
But dude... have some empathy. Chars based on drone skills have really hard time with these changes.

FRONTIER ADVENTURERS Corp. | To explore, build & fight! | recruitment topic
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#391 - 2012-12-12 10:38:38 UTC
Manes Avatarr wrote:

Or maybe CCP wanted to enhance difficulty for L4s in general but came up with just screwing Gallente only?
As Minmatar i really dont care, every frig just dies quickly to my rusty guns. And i can just skip these assigments when i land in center of a Serpentis' party which are unplayable for any faction.
But dude... have some empathy. Chars based on drone skills have really hard time with these changes.


Only the ones who rely upon battleclinic for the shipfits. I have already given few ships in this thread that are able to do these missions, but just like when I pointed out that exhumers could fit a tank to miners, I only end up getting insulted and the advise ignored.

The simple truth of high sec bears is that they refuse to adapt in any way to changes.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#392 - 2012-12-12 10:41:20 UTC
Perhaps when CCP and the CSM are quite done patting each other on the back and telling each other how wonderful they are they might respond in this thread...
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#393 - 2012-12-12 10:45:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The simple truth of high sec bears is that they refuse to adapt in any way to changes.


And they sound like Cartman

"this is bullcrap!11"
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#394 - 2012-12-12 10:47:38 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Perhaps when CCP and the CSM are quite done patting each other on the back and telling each other how wonderful they are they might respond in this thread...


Hopefully they evaded those North Korean missiles on the way there, otherwise angry devs with unpatted backs will come to the thread to wreck havoc.
Mund Richard
#395 - 2012-12-12 12:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Sister Lumi wrote:
Funky Lazers wrote:

Now they change the AI so newbs can't do a thing in space.


I just picked this one as an example of the twisted minds of hisec mission-runners.

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Realistically, if you want to play with ships blowing up NPCs semi-safe, you have:
  • Cosmos/Epic Arcs: How often can you do them? (Question, since I am not quite sure).
  • Incursions: Usually accepted as a step UP from L4, and not the same difficulty. Such as, needing fleets with logi, or something
  • Ratting. In HiSec?
  • Exploration: Really chance-based, the ones in hisec are less rewarding, and a quite bit more crowded if you do it in the wrong place.

    • Now, if you go and live in a WH or Sov space, that can get sortof-safeish, and you will make a lot more isk.
    But between L3 and HiSec sites and WH/Sov exploration, the gap can be quite high (well, you can go around it with lower value sites, that are somewhat like L4 in difficulty, but still, the safety part depends on your alliance now).
    At least, that was my impression, ran L4s enough that exploration surprises me more by the shiny loot not dropping, than the difficulty.

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
    Hevymetal
    POT Corp
    #396 - 2012-12-12 12:24:49 UTC
    Louis deGuerre wrote:
    Perhaps when CCP and the CSM are quite done patting each other on the back and telling each other how wonderful they are they might respond in this thread...


    I wouldn't hold you breath, 20 pages and almost 400 posts and not a peep from anyone higher in the food chain then us peons.

    I did notice:

    2 changes from the patch this morning that will certainly go along wa to help mission runners.

    - NPCs will now respect their authored threat ranges so the full room will not aggro a player on entering the dungeon.
    - Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.

    But still not a word about drones.

    Thanks for the communication with the player base and the transparency you promised us years ago.
    Katran Luftschreck
    Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
    #397 - 2012-12-12 12:37:38 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    Only the ones who rely upon battleclinic for the shipfits.


    Never once checked my fits against all of that "Sacred Template" crap. I suppose next you're going to tell me that I should? What?

    http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
    Mund Richard
    #398 - 2012-12-12 12:45:49 UTC
    Hevymetal wrote:
    Thanks for the communication with the player base and the transparency you promised us years ago.

    Communication via patchnotes > Communication via silence Roll

    "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
    DeBingJos
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #399 - 2012-12-12 13:11:53 UTC
    Hevymetal wrote:
    Louis deGuerre wrote:
    Perhaps when CCP and the CSM are quite done patting each other on the back and telling each other how wonderful they are they might respond in this thread...


    I wouldn't hold you breath, 20 pages and almost 400 posts and not a peep from anyone higher in the food chain then us peons.

    I did notice:

    2 changes from the patch this morning that will certainly go along wa to help mission runners.

    - NPCs will now respect their authored threat ranges so the full room will not aggro a player on entering the dungeon.
    - Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.

    But still not a word about drones.

    Thanks for the communication with the player base and the transparency you promised us years ago.


    that is good.

    To be honest, those 2 changes will solve most of the problems.

    Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

    Remiel Pollard
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #400 - 2012-12-12 13:15:10 UTC
    Hevymetal wrote:
    But still not a word about drones.

    Thanks for the communication with the player base and the transparency you promised us years ago.


    That silence on drones is pretty much how they're communicating that it's working as intended in that regard.

    “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104