EVE General Discussion

THIS
Thought the problem there was, that you could warp inside their proximity range, and agro as soon as you either attack, move, or release drones

I will leave this here.

Read the changes from the new players perspective before continuing this discussion.

The silence, it's deafening, ain't it.

Well, there have been dev posts:

One admitted that the full room agro is a bug.
Another admitted that the EWAR is crazy, and beyond anything they have wanted.

Pretty much those two are what make mission-running near-impossible (totally possible in a Proteus, but let's go with newer players, unpimped fits, ect), not just the new AI alone.
Of course, it's bad if you don't adapt to it as well, but how would one play around fits and adapt, if the other two are also there?

Fascinating. Truly fascinating.
Hey, you know what I enjoy? I enjoy using drones... I just like a swarm of those little buggers (unfortunately just 5 for non carrier ships) just running off and buzzing around your target, picking it appart until there is nothing left other than a wreck.
You know what else I enjoy? Logging in on whatever hour I please and doing missions whenever I want, without depending on a group of players that probably do not have such a random time of being online as I do.

But guess what... DUM DUM DUUUUUUUM. I cant do that anymore. Because if I want to use a drone-boat I cant solo missions, and if I want to solo-missions I need to use another ship, like a missile or turret boat.
At this moment, my Rattlesnake cant deploy its drones farther than 10 KM without losing at least one of them. And I know what you are going to say:

"Use faster drones?"
Have you seen the efficiency of medium/light drones taking out many BS?

"Dont send them past 10 km?"
Right..because my Rattle's ability to send drones to as far as 85KM has been implemented because they are meant to never go past 10 KM. Billiant. 'Or maybe it was for that awsome scenario in which you use drones to snipe people, right?' (said nobody ever)

"Use the 2nd drone wave exploit?"
Because CCP clearly did not state that they will fix that... Not to mention that to use the said exploit, you need to wait for the enemy ships to come into range, given that if you send your drones too far to aggro the enemy, they will die on their way back, before you tuck them in and release the 2nd wave.

"Use sentries!!!!111one1!!"
Yeah... would be an option, but while sentries fall in the same market and skill tab as drones, they are just extra turrets that you can deploy in space, around you. If I wanted that, I would have gone directly for a turret ship, so thx...but no thx.



Its alright, though. I get that being a troll is much easier than actually putting thought into what the problem is. As long as it does not affect what you like to do - 'shooting stuff' - its allright for the rest to burn. I guess your hipocricy does not allow you to understand the fact that other players can enjoy something, just like you do, but in a different way or through different means. You like 'shooting stuff'...and I like 'shooting stuff with drones'. Difference between you and me is 2 words, yet you criticize others for asking CCP to fix their way of having fun. Imagine CCP releasing a patch in which, whenever you 'shoot stuff', your launchers/turrets blow up, Remiel, and then I welcome you to take that without saying a word to the devs or being irritated.

Not asking for drones to be buffed into being overpowered... Just brought back into an acceptable balance, compared to other weapon systems.

And to all those "adapt or die" morons.... If adapting comes at the price of losing your desire to play the game or having fun while playing, then why waste one's time? Eve is supposed to be a game...not a 2nd job.

Did you try doing more dps in the ratter, and add one or two EWAR modules?

This discussion is rather civil, except for a few people that have nothing constructive to say. The topic has nothing to do with running LV4 missions AFK.

CCP devs had several posts that it is, in fact, NOT working as intended...but you go "Working as intended."

"Bloo bloo"? I feel like I should pitty you for your's brain's inability to have absorbed a more complex vocabulary since your birth, given that you are still using what would phonetically sound like a 2-year-old's cries when he wet his diapers, in a discussion that has proven thus far to have more or less mature participants.

Also, CCP FoxFour has posted an example of how he managed to afk missions in a Dominix with sentries...and specifically stating that its now EASIER to afk missions. But you would know that if you had bothered to look into the whole topic before letting your mouth diarheea get the best of you, and blurting out what you did, just for the sake of having a forum post on this thread.

Have a good day.

The insect thing is a heinlein quote I happen to like:
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.[1]

Robert A. Heinlein, in Time Enough for Love, 1973

Also, thank you for the swift and civil response. Nowhere near enough of that in threads like this, these days.

I never flew a Dominix (the aesthetics of the ship bothered me enough to never get into one), but if I give it a quick thought with a Rattle, just fit it for a good tank, let the NPCs get in optimal orbit, then release the sentries -> let them take aggro -> pull them back in -> release them again the moment NPCs re-aggro you -> go afk.

In that situation, the NPCs will not re-aggro your drones and the sentries usually focus BS and cruisers, while keeping frigs last. When you return from being afk, just put out a set of light drones and that's Mission Completed.

I admit that I never tried doing this, because I dislike AFKing missions, but from what i've observed of the new AI's behaviour towards drones, that would be the way to afk missions. Ofcourse, this does not work for missions that spawn waves of NPCs. Another downside to this would be the long wait-time before you can release the drones the 1st time, because of letting NPCs get closer.

Again, sorry for not being able to give you a proper Dominix fit, nor can I give you the one FoxFour posted, given that I would have to plow through my history to catch the thread in which he wrote the post I spoke about, and it was several days ago that I read it, when I first came to the forums. If you want I can give you info on a Rattle fit that will work.

Not going to reply to anyone in particular, but the whole "specialization is for insects" and "adapt" doesn't hold water as a valid argument. Even though I personally love that Heinlein quote - managed most of is by now, except writing a sonnet, conning a ship and the whole dying part.

First, stop and realize that "specialization" is precisely what most EVE guides advocate for new players! Yes, that's right. The advice given to a new player is never "train everything!", it is always "pick one and get good with it", usually starting with a frigate and a single weapon system and a single tank. As such, this AI change, if it punishes specialization and encourages diversification, goes directly against the new players. And then we wonder why EVE's new player retention sucks?

Second, have you considered that perhaps the player specialized for a reason? As in, a player chose to specialize to fly drone boats because he likes the idea of drone boats? As such, adapting - which is easier to achieve by cross-training into a more manageable ship - is not something they're willing to do. It is, in a way, equivalent to taking a pirate player in EVE, who only wants to PvP, making PvP difficult/impossible, and forcing the pirate into PvE as a way to "adapt". Will that likely work? Well, no, because it is not the play style he prefers. Same with missions. It's not that adaptation is impossible - it's just many feel that in a sandbox game where you supposedly can do whatever you wish - being pushed into something goes contrary to the core design.

So, you say, fly drone boats if that's what you want, and deal with consequences (managing drones, aggro issues, etc.)? Sure, you're right. Totally 100% correct. But, this is where balance comes in! If ships are balanced, a drone boat should perform at least as well as a turret or missile boat, with the same amount of work. Think of it this way - one worker gets a nailgun, another gets a box or nails and a hammer, and the third gets a box of nails and an old boot. If the objective is to drive nails, the first guy has the obvious advantage, the second guy will perform adequately, and the third guy will whack away with his boot until the cows come home. That's the drone user currently - tons of micromanagement, no payoff for the extra effort. The situation is, simply put, grossly unbalanced.

Now, this is not to say drone boats should be dumbed down to turret/missile level. They could still require tons of micromanagement, but there has to be a payoff. For example, if poorly-managed drone boat did 70% of a turret/missile ship's DPS, and an excellently-managed drone boat did 140% of a turret/missile ship's DPS, with an average being somewhere around 100% (balanced), the system would work. In other MMOs, this is called a "skill cap". Some classes have high skill cap, that is require a very skilled player, but the payoff is that the class can feel almost godlike in the right hands. Similarly, a low skill cap class will perform moderately well, regardless of how poorly it is played, it is simply very difficult to screw up due to user error. I wouldn't be opposed to drone boats in EVE becoming high skill cap. But there has to be a payoff for that - for the micromanagement of drones, for the logistical issues of restocking lost drones on combat ops, etc., etc.

Anywho, blah blah. Would be nice to see someone from CCP chime in on the whole drone/AI issue. It's been almost a week since the patch, and mum's the word.