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PVE, Drones, The new AI and You

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#201 - 2012-12-09 20:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:

I'm wondering WTF all these people who are "Doing just fine." are doing, exactly.


Check their posting histories.

It's always the same people, from major 0.0 alliances, puffing their elite chests, constantly demanding nerfs on hi sec, suicide ganking miners and freighters, telling *the others* to STFU and adapt (yet they will never STFU and adapt to their lands).

Not a bit of empathy or comprehension expecially for those not following their forcibly canned, strong armed ways.

Basically you probably have an experience of meeting such kind of arrogant and overbearing people a bit everywhere. And you despise them. In EvE they are a consistent number.

They could politely point you at a resource telling you how to deal with the new challenge but no, they prefer to point and laugh at you. They want to make you feel bad. They enjoy it, it makes them feel good.

Don't feel bad, because you are a nice and coy person, they are the humanity's bad examples.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#202 - 2012-12-09 20:59:01 UTC
Deja Blue wrote:
It would appear to me that the developers are the enemy, more and more.

We all remember from Monocle-gate how they really feel about the players-base. It is as if the developers do everything possible to keep new players from even being able to play the game.

Lot to think about.

Darkfall: Unholy Wars is next week. I think I will try that.

Did you unlock the hidden final boss?!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#203 - 2012-12-09 21:01:11 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Sildan Smith wrote:
The silence from the Devs regarding the changes to Drone aggro is absolutely deafening.

Not one of the many threads about how much damage the AI change has done to drone users has been commented on at all.



Yep, I'm totally loving how in the past week Dev tags and threads with a word "Drones" resolutely refuse to mix. And it's not like they are not on the forums, they're joking and horsing around in other threads. But anything with AI or drone to it? /ignore But hey, I'll give credit where credit is due - drone issue has been an elephant in the room for years, and CCP has done a fantastic job of completely ignoring it.


And therein lies another problem in and of itself. Lack of communication. 10 Threads on the first page alone that Devs have commented in. Ranging from killrights, bounties, WIS, hell even the number of people logged into the server. Yet not a word about this issue. On behalf of the community, SAY SOMETHING PLEASE :) I humbly believe this issue warrants some response as it effects a vast section of the playerbase.


Pretty GuyYeah
#204 - 2012-12-09 21:04:01 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:

I'm wondering WTF all these people who are "Doing just fine." are doing, exactly.


Check their posting histories.

It's always the same people, from major 0.0 alliances, puffing their elite chests, constantly demanding nerfs on hi sec, suicide ganking miners and freighters, telling *the others* to STFU and adapt (yet they will never STFU and adapt to their lands).

Not a bit of empathy or comprehension expecially for those not following their forcibly canned, strong armed ways.

Basically you probably have an experience of meeting such kind of arrogant and overbearing people a bit everywhere. And you despise them. In EvE they are a consistent number.

They could politely point you at a resource telling you how to deal with the new challenge but no, they prefer to point and laugh at you. They want to make you feel bad. They enjoy it, it makes them feel good.

Don't feel bad, because you are a nice and coy person, they are the humanity's bad examples.



+1


+ they have enough SP to not care about the changes, some of us dont'

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#205 - 2012-12-09 21:07:52 UTC
Hevymetal wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Sildan Smith wrote:
The silence from the Devs regarding the changes to Drone aggro is absolutely deafening.

Not one of the many threads about how much damage the AI change has done to drone users has been commented on at all.

Yep, I'm totally loving how in the past week Dev tags and threads with a word "Drones" resolutely refuse to mix. And it's not like they are not on the forums, they're joking and horsing around in other threads. But anything with AI or drone to it? /ignore But hey, I'll give credit where credit is due - drone issue has been an elephant in the room for years, and CCP has done a fantastic job of completely ignoring it.

And therein lies another problem in and of itself. Lack of communication. 10 Threads on the first page alone that Devs have commented in. Ranging from killrights, bounties, WIS, hell even the number of people logged into the server. Yet not a word about this issue. On behalf of the community, SAY SOMETHING PLEASE :) I humbly believe this issue warrants some response as it effects a vast section of the playerbase.

That is a response already, they clearly think it's just fine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Admiral Rufus
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#206 - 2012-12-09 21:24:00 UTC
Don't mind smarter ai, but if i were in a 20man fleet and a solo ship warped into us and dropped drones, even if it were a drone boat, no one would ever target a single drone! Missioning is repetative enough without adding in another repetative task of recalling and redeploying drones every 2 minutes!

I don't mission a lot, but when i do i want it to be irritation free, now it isn't. At least outside of nullsec, stop npc's in missions L1-5 targetting drones please, its annoying
Red Maiden
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2012-12-09 21:25:38 UTC
I'm loving the changes!

Makes doing some L4s much more interesting. I even lost a few drones during a mission for the first time in a long time, and it wasn't because I warped out and forgot about them.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#208 - 2012-12-09 22:38:52 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Deja Blue wrote:
It would appear to me that the developers are the enemy, more and more.

We all remember from Monocle-gate how they really feel about the players-base. It is as if the developers do everything possible to keep new players from even being able to play the game.

Lot to think about.

Darkfall: Unholy Wars is next week. I think I will try that.

Did you unlock the hidden final boss?!


Considering EvE is a risk free, carebear game compared to Darkfall, did you unlock the hidden, final moon?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#209 - 2012-12-09 23:08:10 UTC
Admiral Rufus wrote:
I don't mission a lot, but when i do i want it to be irritation free, now it isn't.

Op success.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#210 - 2012-12-09 23:14:44 UTC
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:

I'm wondering WTF all these people who are "Doing just fine." are doing, exactly.


Check their posting histories.

It's always the same people, from major 0.0 alliances, puffing their elite chests, constantly demanding nerfs on hi sec, suicide ganking miners and freighters, telling *the others* to STFU and adapt (yet they will never STFU and adapt to their lands).

Not a bit of empathy or comprehension expecially for those not following their forcibly canned, strong armed ways.

Basically you probably have an experience of meeting such kind of arrogant and overbearing people a bit everywhere. And you despise them. In EvE they are a consistent number.

They could politely point you at a resource telling you how to deal with the new challenge but no, they prefer to point and laugh at you. They want to make you feel bad. They enjoy it, it makes them feel good.

Don't feel bad, because you are a nice and coy person, they are the humanity's bad examples.



+1


+ they have enough SP to not care about the changes, some of us dont'

Its funny because I literally just said I have less SP in drones.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#211 - 2012-12-09 23:20:37 UTC
Admiral Rufus wrote:

I don't mission a lot, but when i do i want it to be irritation free, now it isn't.

And this right here is what people are whining about. CCP have turned off easy mode slightly and they are not at all happy about it!
Drakthon
#212 - 2012-12-09 23:33:39 UTC
I use a Rattlesnake in null, and my drones were blasted. Sure, I recalled them, but we all know how fast heavies move. I used to be able to do Forlorn Hubs for iskies between ops, now I'm going to have to find a different hull. Shame. It was a beautiful ship.

I'll probably get the Tengu that has been mentioned so many times.

My problem is not with the changes. Mix things up, that's fine. But it is the idea of Eve, that paradigm that you can only trust yourself, that causes pilots to want to solo lvl 4 missions. Corp mates are an option, but it is after all highsec. You want fleet ops, CCP, move lvl 4's to lowsec. That'll show em.

Drones in npc combat should be left alone. Who the hell cares if you can solo lvl 4's by deploying drones and waiting around? It's highsec. Everyone and their dog knows that null is where it's at, and low sec if you're feeling ballsy.

This expansion pack was supposed to be CCP's redemption (hence "retribution") from their idiotic ways (read: walking in stations) of the past. I find this bulldozer approach to "fixing" something that isn't broken is akin to their absolutely brilliant release (and subsequent handling) of the Nobel exchange and the fiasco that ensued.

Oh well.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#213 - 2012-12-09 23:34:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Admiral Rufus wrote:

I don't mission a lot, but when i do i want it to be irritation free, now it isn't.

And this right here is what people are whining about. CCP have turned off easy mode slightly and they are not at all happy about it!


Next patch, complete nerf to titan bridges!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#214 - 2012-12-09 23:36:46 UTC
Drakthon wrote:
I use a Rattlesnake in null, and my drones were blasted. Sure, I recalled them, but we all know how fast heavies move. I used to be able to do Forlorn Hubs for iskies between ops, now I'm going to have to find a different hull. Shame. It was a beautiful ship.

I'll probably get the Tengu that has been mentioned so many times.

My problem is not with the changes. Mix things up, that's fine. But it is the idea of Eve, that paradigm that you can only trust yourself, that causes pilots to want to solo lvl 4 missions. Corp mates are an option, but it is after all highsec. You want fleet ops, CCP, move lvl 4's to lowsec. That'll show em.

Drones in npc combat should be left alone. Who the hell cares if you can solo lvl 4's by deploying drones and waiting around? It's highsec. Everyone and their dog knows that null is where it's at, and low sec if you're feeling ballsy.

This expansion pack was supposed to be CCP's redemption (hence "retribution") from their idiotic ways (read: walking in stations) of the past. I find this bulldozer approach to "fixing" something that isn't broken is akin to their absolutely brilliant release (and subsequent handling) of the Nobel exchange and the fiasco that ensued.

Oh well.


Mate, here's the plan:

1) Make your nullsec ability to make ISK gimped.
2) Thus force you back to hi sec to grind ISK.
3) Now the usual gang can stink the forums about the fact you find hi sec better at grinding ISK than nullsec! Twisted

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#215 - 2012-12-09 23:43:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Admiral Rufus wrote:

I don't mission a lot, but when i do i want it to be irritation free, now it isn't.

And this right here is what people are whining about. CCP have turned off easy mode slightly and they are not at all happy about it!


Next patch, complete nerf to titan bridges!

Means nothing to me.
HydroSan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2012-12-10 00:00:38 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sildan Smith wrote:
The silence from the Devs regarding the changes to Drone aggro is absolutely deafening.

Not one of the many threads about how much damage the AI change has done to drone users has been commented on at all.



Quite true.
And this is only phase one of the plan.
Phase 2 is the removal of the current loophole where the AI only attacks the 1st wave of your drones.

So how do you interpret that silence from the devs?
In your interpretation, consider also that CCP has not provided hard data on PvE income for quite some time, so there is no baseline to measure any drop in PvE income with.


I haven't noticed this loophole at all.

Drones are dying everywhere.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-12-10 00:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
baltec1 wrote:

And this right here is what people are whining about. CCP have turned off easy mode slightly and they are not at all happy about it!


Try...no, better still, record an attempt at "The Assault" vs Serpentis and post it. Preferably in something pricey and shiny so I can laugh at you.

"turned off easy mode slightly"...is that what you call some 30-40 ships aggroing at warp in while combined with roughly 8-10 of those spamming dampers synchronously?

That's not "turned off easy mode slightly", that is "batshit insane".

Edit: For bonus points, show me your 'adapt or die' fit which swaps tank/dps for sebos/equivalent....then allow me to laugh harder as the rats melt your (now hilarious) 'adapted' tank in a heartbeat.
Mund Richard
#218 - 2012-12-10 00:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Drakthon wrote:
I use a Rattlesnake in null, and my drones were blasted. Sure, I recalled them, but we all know how fast heavies move. I used to be able to do Forlorn Hubs for iskies between ops, now I'm going to have to find a different hull. Shame. It was a beautiful ship.
Rattlesnake with heavy drones (jumping to conclusions here, but on battleships?).
Lost me there.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
And this right here is what people are whining about. CCP have turned off easy mode slightly and they are not at all happy about it!

Try...no, better still, record an attempt at "The Assault" vs Serpentis and post it. Preferably in something pricey and shiny so I can laugh at you.
"turned off easy mode slightly"...is that what you call some 30-40 ships aggroing at warp in while combined with roughly 8-10 of those spamming dampers synchronously?
That's not "turned off easy mode slightly", that is "batshit insane".
Edit: For bonus points, show me your 'adapt or die' fit which swaps tank/dps for sebos/equivalent....then allow me to laugh harder as the rats melt your (now hilarious) 'adapted' tank in a heartbeat.

*popcorn*
If you do it after the full room aggro has been fixed, first take full aggro manually, move back to the starting poing, de-target everything and recall drones.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#219 - 2012-12-10 00:47:14 UTC
HydroSan wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Quite true.
And this is only phase one of the plan.
Phase 2 is the removal of the current loophole where the AI only attacks the 1st wave of your drones.

So how do you interpret that silence from the devs?
In your interpretation, consider also that CCP has not provided hard data on PvE income for quite some time, so there is no baseline to measure any drop in PvE income with.

I haven't noticed this loophole at all.

Drones are dying everywhere.

People are bad at EVE, I'm amazed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Tempist
UnLimited Liability Corporation
#220 - 2012-12-10 04:19:00 UTC
So, in the meantime, while we are waiting for them to debug the full room aggro and other "adaptability" hurdles of the missions etc, my new hobby is forum trolling. I pay to be here too. When I am otherwise gainfully occupied you almost never see me here on the forums. So if you see me here, there must be something wrong, right? Looking forward to the debugging.

Change is the only constant. I will even adapt to blatant absurdity. You know who you are.