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Why don't NPC ships attempt to pod players?
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Rengerel en Distel Likes received: 2,191	#21 - 2012-12-08 17:11:31 UTC 1 I believe CCP Foxfour has mentioned his desire to make it that way one day. I'm sure they'd have to do something with implants and clone costs before they did that though. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Reaver Glitterstim

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,058

#22 - 2012-12-08 17:14:15 UTC

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

If players can't blow up miners effectively, than the NPC's need to in .7 and below.
CCP gave them their cake and is letting them eat it. It needs to stop. Changes that make high sec safer have a negative impact on other areas of the game

I agree with the barge hit point changes, as they were paper thin to the point of ridiculousness before. The procurer and retriever have too high a yield probably, but that's a topic for another discussion. But yes, even highsec has good things, and they should come with challenges. I'd even like to see CONCORD response time increased in 0.6 and 0.5 space. There's still a lot of hulks and mackinaws out there AFK-mining, apparently not getting ganked. I think 0.5 CONCORD response time should be high enough that if you don't have a nice tank or bother to shoot back, a destroyer should have its way with you. 0.5 should encourage players to fend for themselves.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Borlag Crendraven

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 474

#23 - 2012-12-08 17:16:28 UTC

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Akirei Scytale wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Why aren't belt rats a threat to high sec miners?

I'd rather see that addressed before they consider having NPC's pod you; neither of which will ever happen.

Try being a 3 month old noob mining in an Osprey in a .5 system.

Again......no concept of boundaries. see what I mean ?

A 3 month old noob stands to lose essentially nothing by being podded. It actually saves him the time of warping back home.

No, no.

lol.

He was saying that belt rats are a "threat" to a 3 month old character.

lol.

You forgot the key part. Miners don't want to care about surviving, all they want is perfect immunity, which is why that 3 month old character rather trains for perfect yield rather than "waste" two weeks for adequate drone skills and a week or two for tanking. Anything becomes a challenge if you let it, and miners most certainly do.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#24 - 2012-12-08 17:16:54 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Why aren't belt rats a threat to high sec miners?

I'd rather see that addressed before they consider having NPC's pod you; neither of which will ever happen.

Try being a 3 month old noob mining in an Osprey in a .5 system.

Again......no concept of boundaries. see what I mean ?

If you're using an Osprey to mine after the retribution patch you're doing it wrong

eve ship description wrote:

The Osprey is a Support Cruiser designed to rapidly repair allied vessels in combat.

Traits
Caldari Cruiser skill bonus per level:
12.5% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter capacitor use

Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to Shield Transporter and Energy Transfer Array Range
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount

Development
In YC114 each major empire faction, having been embroiled in a harrowing, extensive, long-term war, recognized the growing need for support and logistics functionality in their vessels during the kind of protracted interstellar warfare that might otherwise prove exhausting for its participants. Both Frigate and Cruiser-class ships were put under the microscope, and in the Caldari State the outcome of the re-evaluation process led, among other developments, to a redesign and redeployment of the Osprey.

The Osprey originally offered excellent versatility and power for what was considered a comparably low price. After its redesign, its inbuilt mining technology - now a little creaky and long in the tooth - was gutted from the Osprey and replaced in its entirety with tech of a different type, capable of high energy and shield transfers

The Osprey no longer has any bonus to mining, it's now a purely logistics ship, RIP the bait mining Osprey.

Edit, the Osprey now only has one turret slot, so even if you do decide to mine with it, you can only fit one mining laser module.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ocih

Space Mermaids

Likes received: 870

#25 - 2012-12-08 17:17:42 UTC | Edited by: Ocih

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

and 0.5 should have rats that discourage mining in a barge without combat support.

There's a place for this and it happens. It's called Low Sec. Oh, I forget......it's useless to go there.

Yes, you should be able to sit in a .5 system and only have to worry about suicide ganking; while mining the same **** people mine in places that the NPC's are an actual threat.

You're what's wrong with EVE.

You are under some illusion as to the mining systems in EVE. There are better rocks in an .8 system than in most .5 the same as there are premium mining systems in Null. Not all Null is scaled by sec either. No stations in a system and dead end locations play more in to the Ore than sec. I don't know why, I just know it's true.

Back to what Krixtal keeps saying, it's about boundaries.

If and when Goons lose their space, they won't lose 5 systems, they won't lose half their systems, they won't lose 90% of their systems. You will lose ALL OF YOUR SYSTEMS. Everything is gross overkill to the extreme. That's a player flaw backed by gross overkill mechanics of I-Win.

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#26 - 2012-12-08 17:22:55 UTC

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

and 0.5 should have rats that discourage mining in a barge without combat support.

There's a place for this and it happens. It's called Low Sec. Oh, I forget......it's useless to go there.

No. We would love to mine Low Sec, and I know how to defend against those rats.

Unfortunately Pirates & GANKERS have other ideas about miners in Low Sec.

And then complain that 'NOBODY IS THERE'.

They don't really want to 'play' EVE with any sense of true gameplay.

They chase most people out, then whine on the forums about the emptiness.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#27 - 2012-12-08 17:26:43 UTC

Ocih wrote:

Everything is gross overkill to the extreme. That's a player flaw backed by gross overkill mechanics of I-Win.

Really this is the true heart of the matter.

It's infected society utterly, especially online.

And thinggs like the Royal's Nurse in London yesterday and all that.

Everything has to be extreme, boundary-less, and consequence free so "I CAN WIN". "I RULE."

I'm always reminded of PArker Posey at the end of "Dazed & Confused" when she addresses the air "Everybody Lick Me! I Rock !"

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Reaver Glitterstim

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,058

#28 - 2012-12-08 17:27:44 UTC

Ocih wrote:

You are under some illusion as to the mining systems in EVE. There are better rocks in an .8 system than in most .5 the same as there are premium mining systems in Null.

True. But the highsec asteroid values ARE supposed to scale with the sec status. I think the problem is pretty obvious: pyroxeres yields too much nocxium, so lowsec ores aren't hardly worth mining. Also, kernite could probably have its isogen yield reduced to increase the demand for isogen and improve the comparative price of omber. My point is that the highsec ores are poorly balanced and that that is entirely the reason for 0.8 ores netting higher sale values than 0.5 ores.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#29 - 2012-12-08 17:29:06 UTC

Funky Lazers wrote:

Mr Epeen wrote:

Because then EVE would actually be the harsh place place that CCP are trying to tell us it is and everyone would quit.

Mr Epeen Cool

It is harsh enough so people start quitting because of NPC AI change.

I predict CCP goes bankrupt if NPCs could pod players.

That's nothing to do with challenge.

It's a UI issue, and they said it's one they intend to address. PvE didn't get "harder" it's just a hasslte to manage with the current mechanics for deploying and retreiving drones.

Making high sec safer hasn't been bringing in floods of new players. No amount of safety in high sec is ever going to have a tremendous hit on the number of people that play. Easing the mechanics so that they're simple to understand will. That is the entirety of the problem with drones right now, they're a pain in the ass to manage.

If you're willing to quit over things that put control in your hand, then so be it. You wouldn't stay with EVE anyways.

As long as you have the tools to survive in high sec, you should be able to blown up there as well.

If they're going to do things that make high sec safer from other players, then they need to make it more dangerous when you encounter an NPC while sitting in a belt mining ore safely.

2 t1 drones shouldn't be sufficient to keep you safe the lower the sec status is. You shouldn't be able to sit in a belt for 20 minuttes, waiting for your strips to finish cycling before you warp to station, while 2 or 3 rats shoot you.

You shouldn't feel comfortable beeing shot at, BECAUSE it's an NPC, that's silly.

Reaver Glitterstim

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,058

#30 - 2012-12-08 17:31:17 UTC | Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

So your solution is to have the lowsec pirate purposely not kill people, to bring more targets into lowsec? He'll just get laughed at while he's not getting the kills that other pirates are getting.

The solution is to increase the reward for going there. Lowsec pirates want more targets to shoot? Carebears need a reason to go there.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#31 - 2012-12-08 17:33:25 UTC

Borlag Crendraven wrote:

I'll just simply say you have no idea what you are talking about.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#32 - 2012-12-08 17:34:23 UTC

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

No point, he's one of the "no pvp" guys.

It's not a problem of reward or balance for him, it's one person shooting another. Nothing more, nothing less.

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#33 - 2012-12-08 17:34:47 UTC

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Then nothing gets mined....then you don't get ships.

Low Sec is nothing but the Circle of Ouroboros as far as what the heck to do with it. Every solution seems to have a counter...in BOTH directions.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#34 - 2012-12-08 17:36:04 UTC

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Borlag Crendraven wrote:

I'll just simply say you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm sure the sone among us are shaking our heads and thinking, "no, you are definately wrong."


Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic Likes received: 114,583	#35 - 2012-12-08 17:37:05 UTC 1 Natsett Amuinn wrote: No point, he's one of the "no pvp" guys. That is just a flat out lie. You guys just need to seriously stop. You talk and tal;k and talk....and it's all bs with nothing behind it. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#36 - 2012-12-08 17:37:47 UTC | Edited by: Natsett Amuinn

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Edit: Bleh. Read the newest dev blog, where they point out that the mining buff lead to an increase of afk and bot mining in high sec.

edit: confusion is setting in.

Kitty Bear

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,626

#37 - 2012-12-08 17:39:10 UTC

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Why aren't belt rats a threat to high sec miners?

I'd rather see that addressed before they consider having NPC's pod you; neither of which will ever happen.

Try being a 3 month old noob mining in an Osprey in a .5 system.

Again......no concept of boundaries. see what I mean ?

The tutorials should cover the use of armor plates and shield extenders. This would help a lot of new players save a lot of ships. If you fit a large shield extender to your osprey, you'll have no difficulty with 0.5 sec rats. I'd like to see belt rats become much stronger than they are, scaling by sec status of course. I think 0.9 should have baby rats for ultra-new players, 0.8 should have rats like the current 0.6, 0.7 should have rats like the strongest in 0.5 but also with occasional destroyers, 0.6 should have stuff that require a retriever or covetor to fit some tank, and 0.5 should have rats that discourage mining in a barge without combat support.

retriever has a drone bay
ergo it has self supplied combat support

whether the pilot of that retriever uses the drone bay for combat drones is completely different matter

Reaver Glitterstim

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,058

#38 - 2012-12-08 17:41:50 UTC

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Nothing is perfect, but everything has checks and balances. The fewer ships there are on the market, the more expensive the ships become. The more expensive ships are, the more profitable mining becomes. Eventually with enough scarcity, the pirates would be unable to fund gank ships and would instead start mining for money. But it'll never go that far as there is never a shortage of crafty players who can make mountains out of molehills, and make the margins work. If players had to mine lowsec or nullsec to get the nocxium needed for ships and stuff, then they'd find a way and do it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."


Natsett Amuinn Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 2,232	#39 - 2012-12-08 17:42:54 UTC 2 Kitty Bear wrote: retriever has a drone bay ergo it has self supplied combat support whether the pilot of that retriever uses the drone bay for combat drones is completely different matter Yup, and 2 drones with like a weeks worth of skill training is tougher than 3 .6 belt rats. How in the world is that even right?

Krixtal Icefluxor

INLAND EMPIRE Galactic

Likes received: 114,583

#40 - 2012-12-08 17:43:57 UTC

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Edit: Bleh. Read the newest dev blog, where they point out that the mining buff lead to an increase of afk and bot mining in high sec.

That may be true, but I don'tconsider that true mining.

I'm NEVER afk. Never for a second.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck." - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

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