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PVE, Drones, The new AI and You

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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#41 - 2012-12-05 04:01:04 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
and stop comparing it to wormhole sleepers the rewards are nothing in comparism and level 4 mission runners shouldnt be gimped this badly.


That's a good point too. In their rabid frenzy to give more risk to people in hisec, they always forget the reward part of the equation. Straight

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#42 - 2012-12-05 04:07:42 UTC
You have a few options:

  1. get a friend to do L4's with, do 2x the missions in the same time as one
  2. move to null and actually make ISK
  3. GTFO

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-12-05 04:09:24 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
You have a few options:

  1. get a friend to do L4's with, do 2x the missions in the same time as one
  2. move to null and actually make ISK
  3. GTFO

I understand having all the best content require groups in an MMO, but eliminating solo content doesn't seem to bright to me.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-12-05 04:27:40 UTC
HydroSan wrote:
Gallente can't rat or do missions anymore. Who thought this was a good change?



making rat AI harder actually has been a player sponsored idea for years actually. Its been a top 10 idea to make pve less boring for a while now.

And unless I missed it in the notes, mega, vindi, kronos did not have gun bonuses stripped from them. Domi high slotted out ain't too bad either
Sekket
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-12-05 05:02:22 UTC
Drones (especially T2) need to be cheaper and drone bays need to be larger to accomodate replacements. Drones are like really expensive ammunition now. I guess you could argue that they always were.
  • CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#46 - 2012-12-05 05:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Harland White
Anabella Rella wrote:
This is the only game I've ever played that relied so heavily on having multiple accounts. If high sec mission running to generate isk for my PVP fun now requires logistics, e-war or aggro alts then I'll pass and find another game.


Yeah pretty much this.

I enjoy L4s as they were, if they're now un-soloable and require more people (meaning less reward) or more accounts (meaning more money down the drain) then I'm definitely unsubbing. Plenty of other (arguably better) games out there allow you to solo much of the content enjoyably. I play this game to relax and enjoy myself after work most days, and I don't play 12 hours a day, so you can call me "casual". If EVE is now going to require multiple accounts and playing way more often and changing my playstyle, so long, CCP.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Maximus Vorlon
The Poseidon Exploration
#47 - 2012-12-05 06:12:47 UTC
If this is an attempt to improve the NPC AI, they should have the NPC's change their target to what's dealing the most damage, say over a period of 10 seconds.

When I got back to running missions, I entered the site and made sure I got all the agro, dealing alot of damage with cruise missiles, but just launching the drones and having them orbiting me, obviously posted more of a thread than the battleship blowing them up. All the NPC's lost interest in the only thing dealing them damage.

The drones should av been considered non-hostile compared to me.

NPC AI should behave as the invading alien force in the movie Battleship, attack the threat about to kill you :)
starbelt stacy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-12-05 07:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: starbelt stacy
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
You have a few options:

  1. get a friend to do L4's with, do 2x the missions in the same time as one
  2. move to null and actually make ISK
  3. GTFO



why should i be forced into null sec? ... am i not entitled to play the game as i see fit by what gives me pleasure?


i dont have any "friends" in eve hence the reason i play solo with my alt, its a lot less grief and tiresome than teaming up with randoms who i wouldnt trust as far as i could pod them.

i have done null sec on my pirate alt ages ago and the blob warfare done my head in... sorry just not into doing blobs and warp bubbles camped by griefers looking for the next blob kill mail.... sue me

i just want to do level 4's that is what floats my boat..... i shouldnt be gimped for wanting to play the game how i enjoy it as long as i play legit.
but it doesnt matter anymore cos me and my caldari navy raven are now retired from level 4's as they are just not worth the grief now, so thats my 3 accounts unsubbed for now and i wont be renewing it any time soon unless changes are made or i can find something else i enjoy doing ingame
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-12-05 07:21:50 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
Pyre leFay wrote:
Did they give remaps when they made doomsdays single target?
Did they give remaps when they made supers fighter and bomber only?
Adapt.



and by adapt you mean sit in station and train up for another 1-3 months for something else to do in eve as your chosen profession while you pay for your sub???

meanwhile back in reality.......


There are other things to do in this game, but if you want to waste time sitting around in station, that's your prerogative.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-12-05 07:22:44 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
but it doesnt matter anymore cos me and my caldari navy raven are now retired from level 4's as they are just not worth the grief now, so thats my 3 accounts unsubbed for now and i wont be renewing it any time soon unless changes are made or i can find something else i enjoy doing ingame

Consider unloading your assets to someone that will continue to torture themselves by running missions with them.

I've always thought about taking up L4s...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Manes Avatarr
Superfast
#51 - 2012-12-05 07:25:05 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:

so your solution is to fly minmatar ships, just like everyone does in PvP.
Whilst we're at it why don't we just remove amarr, gallente and caldari from the game, since no one will use them for anything anymore. :P



I said "or equivalent". Blasters and pulses will work fine.
Personally... i DO L4s sometimes and i havent used single drone since long time. I just kill all ships with "short" range guns.
As i said, Gallente are screwed a bit. Everybody else can find new solutions to NPC AI issue. Altough missions become more risky.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#52 - 2012-12-05 07:26:15 UTC
Agent Akari wrote:
Drones are very important in eve lore, where do you think baby rogue drones come from? :)


Nasty Ogre II having intercourse with a nice Valkirie II? P

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-12-05 07:28:02 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
starbelt stacy wrote:
but it doesnt matter anymore cos me and my caldari navy raven are now retired from level 4's as they are just not worth the grief now, so thats my 3 accounts unsubbed for now and i wont be renewing it any time soon unless changes are made or i can find something else i enjoy doing ingame

Consider unloading your assets to someone that will continue to torture themselves by running missions with them.

I've always thought about taking up L4s...


There's a reason why mission runners seem to be the primary complainers about this patch - it's because missions are predictable, and they've always known what they are in for. They are, by nature, the kind of people that don't like change, hence why they run missions, and hence why they are doing nothing but complaining about how hard the new AI is making it for them.

What people aren't realising is that by making lvl4s harder, it may mean having to fly them in a fleet. It is also an acceptable alternative to moving lvl4s out of high sec - they stay in high sec, but are now harder to accomplish, hence decreasing the exponential influx of excess ISK in the economy and reducing the need for ISK sinks. This is a quality patch disguised as an AI boost.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-12-05 07:31:01 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
You have a few options:

  1. get a friend to do L4's with, do 2x the missions in the same time as one
  2. move to null and actually make ISK
  3. GTFO

I understand having all the best content require groups in an MMO, but eliminating solo content doesn't seem to bright to me.


There has been no elimination of solo content. You still have level 1s, 2s, and 3s.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#55 - 2012-12-05 07:31:16 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
HydroSan wrote:
Gallente can't rat or do missions anymore. Who thought this was a good change?



making rat AI harder actually has been a player sponsored idea for years actually. Its been a top 10 idea to make pve less boring for a while now.

And unless I missed it in the notes, mega, vindi, kronos did not have gun bonuses stripped from them. Domi high slotted out ain't too bad either



Does "shoot drones first and anyway" equal to "harder" or just annoying?

I think most intended something like Darkfall Online AI, where the NPCs really pose a challenge not just an annoyance.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#56 - 2012-12-05 07:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Remiel Pollard wrote:
What people aren't realising is that by making lvl4s harder, it may mean having to fly them in a fleet. It is also an acceptable alternative to moving lvl4s out of high sec - they stay in high sec, but are now harder to accomplish, hence decreasing the exponential influx of excess ISK in the economy and reducing the need for ISK sinks. This is a quality patch disguised as an AI boost.

You mean... they nerfed L4s without coming out and nerfing L4s? Genius...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-12-05 07:36:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
starbelt stacy wrote:
but it doesnt matter anymore cos me and my caldari navy raven are now retired from level 4's as they are just not worth the grief now, so thats my 3 accounts unsubbed for now and i wont be renewing it any time soon unless changes are made or i can find something else i enjoy doing ingame

Consider unloading your assets to someone that will continue to torture themselves by running missions with them.

I've always thought about taking up L4s...


There's a reason why mission runners seem to be the primary complainers about this patch - it's because missions are predictable, and they've always known what they are in for. They are, by nature, the kind of people that don't like change, hence why they run missions, and hence why they are doing nothing but complaining about how hard the new AI is making it for them.

What people aren't realising is that by making lvl4s harder, it may mean having to fly them in a fleet. It is also an acceptable alternative to moving lvl4s out of high sec - they stay in high sec, but are now harder to accomplish, hence decreasing the exponential influx of excess ISK in the economy and reducing the need for ISK sinks. This is a quality patch disguised as an AI boost.

You mean... they nerfed L4s without coming out and nerfing L4s? Genius...


Exachery Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#58 - 2012-12-05 07:38:30 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

What people aren't realising is that by making lvl4s harder, it may mean having to fly them in a fleet. It is also an acceptable alternative to moving lvl4s out of high sec - they stay in high sec, but are now harder to accomplish, hence decreasing the exponential influx of excess ISK in the economy and reducing the need for ISK sinks. This is a quality patch disguised as an AI boost.


You really believe that EvE is worth so much to get the sixth nerf in the last 3 years and still keep playing it?

It will affect me very little since I found out ways to earn ISK that are not even comparable with lol missioning buy I understand there's a massive number of players who are casual, PvE oriented and similar and are getting labelled, called and spat upon as they were some dirty thieves, a purulent cancer to just wipe off EvE.

What would EvE be without half of its playerbase? Back to the crappy almost LAN sized thing it was in the beginning? I suppose we did not want those devs anyway.

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starbelt stacy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-12-05 07:38:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
starbelt stacy wrote:
but it doesnt matter anymore cos me and my caldari navy raven are now retired from level 4's as they are just not worth the grief now, so thats my 3 accounts unsubbed for now and i wont be renewing it any time soon unless changes are made or i can find something else i enjoy doing ingame

Consider unloading your assets to someone that will continue to torture themselves by running missions with them.

I've always thought about taking up L4s...



sure .. send me 3 bil and ill send you my stuff Roll
starbelt stacy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-05 07:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: starbelt stacy
by the way .... if i was to retrain for another profession / activity in eve i would have to sit in station for most of the time just logging in to flip skills

i only fly a CNR and a hauler..... so it goes without saying i would need to train something else and that takes months einstein does it not???

took me long enough to nearly max out my missile skills / drone skills / engineering and electronics just to fly the damn tooting thing properly only for this ninja nerf.

new ship class.... new weapons to train for ..... new supporting skills to use the aforementioned.

so call me nuts for not wanting to pay a sub for 3 accounts just to flip skills for a few months.