Crime & Punishment

If Goons don't control the prices, someone else will. There is always going to be a big shark in the pool, so perhaps any discussion should focus less on "Goons are bad for Eve because they're good at it" and more on why *anyone* doing activity x is bad for the game as a whole. Also, I doubt they control it as much as your paranoia makes you think.

The FW manipulation you speak of is something they told CCP about, CCP elected not to fix it, so a group of players were smart enough to take advantage. Let's be clear here: they told CCP there was a problem and gave them opportunity to fix it, first, because the fix is good for the game even though it's bad for the individual GSF members.

The strong preying on the weak is Eve in a nutshell.

Now, to avoid my post being nuked for being as off-topic as yours, none of the above has anything to do with miner bumping. There are a couple of goons involved, and there are a few more cheering us on from the sidelines because we're creating content in highsec, a place that is traditionally devoid of it. You clearly dislike goons and their ability to win at Eve, but I'm not a goon and neither are most bumpers. Your post (I can't bring myself to call it an argument) also has many false statements in it. The trit increase was primarily due to the changes CCP made to the drone lands, space that GSF doesn't currently hold.

With the greatest respect, you seem to have two issues 1) that you're angry at goons for being better than you, me, and most of the cluster at playing Eve, and 2) you don't really know what you're talking about, but rather seem to be regurgitating stuff other people have said. This contributes nothing of substance to this conversation on whether or not bumping is creative use of game mechanics to create content, or griefing / harassment / bullying / etc.

Finally, might I add: Dude, paragraphing.

LOL, yes you could make a killing, but it would not be good for the game as your posit. What your are describing already happens in Null Sec, the haven of the aggressive player.
Do you think Null Sec could supply all the ore to make the Eve economy viable? Not even Null Sec and all the Wh could substitute for the current miner based production. And what you describe is a universal Null Sec condition for mining. Except in HiSec I can't arm my compatriots or an alt and blow away the bumpers without getting Concorded.

So lets dump concord, make all of Eve low and null sec, or just null sec.

The game would still have a player base....but a much smaller one.

I am certain CCP wants the broadest player base from passive to aggressive they can entice into investing in EVE.

You sound too much like the scorpion that stung the rabbit it was riding across the stream. Both drowned, but the scorpion was only following its nature. I don't resent your point of view, but I can see where it could lead the game.

Holding my breath......

How is it harassment? Eve is all about forcing others to comply, be it through blackmail, bribery, extortion, ganking or, for the moment at least, bumping.

Given that this is the game CCP created, how is doing these things bad for the game?

Please see my response on 21 where I gave the definition of harassment, and how this applies to actions by New Order.



Good luck with that. You are talking about null sec tactic with an item sold on the market to use in null sec. I've been there and done that. It no fun, but it's something CCP created for the game to be used in that fashion. I accept that because I chose to be in null sec at that time. In the end, it's up to CCP to either see New Order's action as acceptable or as a harassment to high sec passive players.

The moment you stepped foot into New Eden and undocked from station, you accepted the possibility of non-consensual player interaction. Being in Highsec does not change that.

D'Om K'vash answered your question on this for reply 418.
Reply 419 gives good reasons on why it's bad for the game.

I respect your opinion that New Order's tactic against Miners is acceptable, and not bad for Eve. I don't know if it is truly bad for eve, but I have seen a lot of local chat against minerbumping. For what I've seen, a lot of folk don't like it. CCP can either listen to these customers or ignore them.

Nice set of excuses to bring more of null sec risks to HiSec. Lets dump HiSec altogether, that would eliminate all these whiney miners and their pesky mining ...and all that ore...and mins....and manufacturing....and ships....Damn pesky passively inclined players! Lets get rid of them by making game play unpleasant for them . How dare they threaten *your enjoyment* by not staying around to be abused!
LOL.

Miners adapt or leave the profession or the game. Enough left last time during the ganking epidemic so as to force CCP to make adjustments.
You don't really think CCP made those changes because miners simply whined about rapidly devolving safety in HiSec did you?

You are obviously not an experienced miner as I am. During the hulkaggeddons and ganking attacks in the belts I made adaptations. Put a DC2 in my Orca, kept the Hulk Pilot close enough to Dock fast and exchange for a Drake, played with tactical pulled back to as far as practical, watched local for known gankers, mined aligned to an escape point. And saw my production time affected and my volume of income vs time in game drop drastically, despite my billion of isk invested in ships and implants and hundreds of hours in skill training. As well, the tension level of what was supposed to be the most passive of Eves spaceborne professions became unacceptable. I've lived in null sec, low sec and wh. I didn't stay because I am not that agressive a player. So I stopped mining and unsubbed those characters since they were now dead weight and turned my available game time to PVE with my combat skill trained characters that my miners used to earn plex to pay for.

And I wasn;t alone. Many of my miner friends and corpmates either unsubbed or stopped playing and therefore mining for the game. Conditions had changed. Adaptations made the profession, marginal at best for most, certainly unprofitable for many and unlikeable for too many. And it obvioulsy began to or was forecast to affect the income base of CCP: player subscriptions and player retention.

From an economists point of view complaints about buffed mining vessels are ridiculous. If the ganking had continued without more built in defenses for miners then the game as a whole would ultimately have suffered economically both ingame and in the real world that finances it. I saw players mining in battleships! Terrible production and huge wastes of player time hauling. Economically unfeasible.

From your comments above you resent miners extorting better playing conditions from CCP by unsubbing as a result of your extorting of the miners by threatening their level of game enjoyment and player style. Ironic.

Annoying isn't it when pacifists make demands of any kind? And have demonstrated the clout to get action from the "Powers that Be"?
Darned aggressive carebears!

Don't whine at the miners, whine at CCP, they invited more passive players into the game, crreated conditions that allowed them to thrive and maybe even begin to enjoy higher levels of aggression.

If minerbumping reaches epidemic proportions as did the ganking, then adjustments will have to be made, to the annoyance of aggressive players looking for easy pickings. Null sec is that way -------->. Plenty of opportunities to be aggressive and extortive there, except those guys and gals are much more likely to shoot back. Or maybe the current batch of exploiters are too lazy to earn iskies in real PVP and feel entitled to easy iskies from those generally disinterested in player combat?

Why shouldn't aggressive physical attacks by bumping have some form of consequence?
Also ironic to me minerbumpers think they are entitled to claim Mining Sovreignity in HiSec systems without earning it and then complain about miners being lazy. LOL.

Well, my unsubbed miners will remain that way unless and until they can be used profitably in the game.

Time to go explore and run missions.

You miss the point. Most miners want to mine when they are mining. Not be forced to engage in pvp. Your actions and suggestions make mining unprofitable and unenjoyable for the class of player who want to mine. So don't be surprised if mining dimiinishes so drastically there is no economy of supply.You have no idea what skyrocketing prices can do to an economy, especially one dependent on a single source of base supply. People buying ships is not bad for the economy except when they are being used to strangle the source of raw materials. Would you be ablle to afford a thrasher if it cost several billions to buy? How many new players would that drive away? Your attitude would destroy the game you claim you are preserving. Your improvements would be an eventual disaster.

Mining looks to be more unattractive each day so I'll keep my mining characters, unsubbed during the ganking epidemic, offline for now.

Time to run missions.

.

Not empty quoting. Do your own homework, 'victims'.