Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So even if you could currently handle ECM on the field, you're not going to take any advantage to make their ECM less effective? I mean if you don't train the skill you are still as effective on the battlefield as now. If you do train it, your force becomes that much more effective against theirs, making training that skill almost mandatory.

So, if they are mandatory, they are not useless (quite the contrary). And if they are useful, they are worth the time training them ?

How do you consider advanced weapon upgrade skill ? And weapon upgrade ? And energy grid upgrade ? And all these fitting skills ? Because they have exactly the same effect you are describing : if you don't train them, you're screwed because you will be unable to fit what you need...

Welcome to EVE, a game with skills. And in fact, most of the time, you are not screwed if you lack certain skills, you only need to work around. That's why there is fitting mods, meta mod with lower fitting requirement, and ECCM.

No analogy is ever perfect. However, analogizing these skills to the existing anti-ewar skills is much better that the totally flawed assertion that these skills are akin to the old learning skills. It may be with some eventual ecm rework that these skills will have some non-ewar resistant benefit other that the odd and weak anti-scanability benefit of a higher sensor strength.

As for them being mandatory they are not. You are transporting a comparative scenario between gang mates abilities to resist enemy jams into an alleged absolute. But we are already starting from a baseline where noone has this added resistance to ecm. Those ecm ships have to pick your ship out of the crowd for selective treatment with ecm for your pre or post new skill sensor strength to matter. These skills are always going to be optional as long as they have a very limited effect on another game mechanic besides ecm. That many, or even most, players will want some level of training in them does not make them mandatory. Unless you want to call every other skill that provides you a benfit to ship performance mandatory.

I may have misjudged your motivation in my previous post. I figured you for another ecm boat whiner. Now you sound more to me like someone wishing they would have directly nerfed ecm modules. The problem with this is that the nerf would be uniform and uniformly subject to much ecm boat centered outrage. This indirect nerf to ecm strength is variable. I suspect most people will train it to 4. Some newer players will train it to 3 for a period of time before going for 4. And of course people like logistic pilots will very likely train it to 5.

Also, the burden of the nerf falls on the ecm targets. Unlike a nerf directly to ecm strength, which would be bourne solely by ecm pilots, this burden falls on the entire player base. We all have to choose how much time burden we want to invest in this new benefit against ecm. It is actually a very good way to nerf something in game that has always been too powerful and detestful. It results in a mix of percentages of nerf to the strength of ecm up to maximum. To have simply translated that maximum value to a direct nerf on ecm strength was bound to create the same outcry of the past two attempts to solve the fun killing ecm mechanic.

ECM should have a place in the game. ECM and Damps are the two ewars (well along with neuting) that can combat the benefits of logistics. The problem with ecm comes in it totally disabling a ship for 20 seconds and often continuously which is a long time in a pvp clash. So much of this game requires the ability to obtain a lock. And having nothing you can do to break the effect once it hits is fun killing. If you are range damped you have the option to move closer to a target if you can. Once jammed you sit twidling your thumbs unless you are able and decide to just leave the battle.

These skills are the most benign way to nerf ecm. It sounds like they are working on a another radical rework of the mechanic. Hopefully it will be one where a victim has some possible path to adjusting to the effect. Until then, a skill (or set of skills) one can place one's own estimation of value for investment is a good method to reduce the perceived prevalence of thumb in ass uselessness on the eve battlefield. And it is certainly not the reintroduction of the learning skills.

I can't believe they introduced that skill called "Navigation", everyone has to train it, you're at a disadvantage if you don't have that extra 5% ship speed and it's completely unfair.

It's the same with "Gunnery", the RoF bonus is just an unfair time sink for new players to catch up.

And there's so many more...

REMOVE ALL SKILLS FROM EVE!

It's not even close to this. Training navigation 5 could be seen as a mandatory skill, but an ECCM skill, no. It's exactly like EM armor compensation : very useful skill, though only useful when you face EM hiting ennemy, and your armor is already pretty resistant to this.

This ECCM skill will be very useful if you face an ECM ship, though that won't change your life : either your ship is already pretty resistant to ECM and that will make this resistance better, or it's not (frigate, minmatar cruisers), and you still need implants or ECCM to be reliably resistant to ECM.

And anyway, it's not even close from hull upgrades or mechanic skills for example.

Bonus are multiplicative in EVE. That mean that for the afterburner cap use here we have :
activation cost = base activation cost * (1 - 0,5 (fuel conservation skill) * (1 - 0,5 (afterburner skill))
= base activation cost * 0,5^2
= base activation cost * 0,25

And I saw it on the test server, cap use is not zero.

As far as I know, most (if not all) things work this way in the game.

With the afterburner skill now reducing the afterburner duration too, the cap use will be the same (exactly) than before. The only advantages of the change are a lower cap use tic at each cycle (good when neutralized) and a lower cycle time (good for reaching warp speed ?).

Has the new eccm skills been tested with the ratts in some of the missions that ecm?

CCP shoudl think about anti capital jammers, carriers will be now hard as hell to jamm.

This is a joke!

Do below and I'll sub 2 more accounts for 1 year;

*Reduce TD base module effectiveness by 20%
*Leave Remote Sensor Dampeners AS IS
*Reduce Optimal Range and Falloff of all ECM modules by 20 - 30%

If you don't train the skill you will only be as terrible as you are now. If you do train the skill you are less likely to get falcon'd. Whats the big deal?