Crime & Punishment

Alright I quoted the above because it was the first post I could easily find. I am going to try to address what your general theme has been in this discussion however.

To me it seems like you are OK with the bumping mechanic as it pertains to miners but are not OK with the mechanic as it pertains to freighters. I am going to assume that is correct and move forward on that basis.

Your argument is that the miners can warp off and avoid being ganked and loose nothing. To that I say that is outright false. A 2 day old pilot can "Virtual Scram" a hulk just as well as your freighter while they await the gankers to the system. Granted it is more difficult but it can be done.

Secondly EVE has ALWAYS been a game about cooperation. What I mean by that is the game is designed in such a way that specializing in your career path is the only way to be efficient at it. Because of this you need to work as a team with many players to accomplish your goals. Only as a team will you be successful in your endeavors in EVE.

So you flying through space in a ship that may as well be made of money and not expecting others to take notice and gank you is hardly surprising. If you live in low or null you know that flying a Freighter is a dangerous thing. Because of that you usually see a "team" of people all working together to accomplish a goal. I see no reason why you think that should be different in hi-sec. If someone decides to gank you they are going to pay a far bigger penalty then they would in low or null. That is usually deterrent enough to stop MOST people from doing it. It doesn't mean it is safe and you should consider the risks of piloting a 1.2 billion ISK ship through any space solo.

At the end of the day I think what the NO folks have done here is more than just **** off miners. I think it may be a start of the truly dangerous EVE we were all promised when we signed up. One that requires teamwork to survive. There is no reason in my mind folks can't take the ground work that NO has established and apply it to all parts of hi-sec space.

Long story short don't get upset when you come across players that have more cooperation and organization than you. Tip your hat, learn the lesson, and work towards making your own endeavors stronger.

It's my quote to say "use a scout". Not their's. They want your isk, I want freewill from players. And you don't need a scout ALT. Just someone to scout for you. Simple concept, and in my original post mentioning using a scout, I gave an example. You don't need trillions of isk. You only need someone willing to help you. That isn't even counting hiring one to escort you the entire way.

FFS, just get a buddy to be 1-2 jumps ahead in a cruiser, not even cloaked, that can form the words "yes, it's safe to jump".

Funny thing about the FW thing is it was our marketing team that brought up the issue with CCP while it was on the test server. They didn't listen so we did it anyway. At no point did we defend FW farmville, but we'd have been stupid to not take advantage of it while it was around.

You don't need multiple accounts to be able to take active measures to avoid things or mitigate the risk. Make friends, work with others.

Those same people blame the cooking pot company for burning their hands because they don't realize that a pot holder or towel might be needed. Well guess what, you put the burner on, with a metal pot. It's gonna be warm.

Btw, thanks for the "caution: coffee handed to you by employee is hot" stickers.

I'll have you know that many of the freighter pilots I've helped gank have had much more than me. The 15 minute agression time was brought in to the game because supercaps weren't dying along with many other people who were escaping death by simply logging out of the game. It wasn't just goons avoiding death by logging out, everyone was doing it.

Saying that something needs to be changed because a few goons are doing something isn't really a good way to get a point across. There are plenty of things that desperately need changes that we don't do, such as nullsec industry.

With reference to the correct physics of collisions I'll refer you back to this post, A frigate tanking along at 4000m/s isn't going to move any ship it hits, it's going to completely obliterate it regardless of size, the kinetic energy involved is huge.

For a real life example we'll take ammunition, a 7.62mm round weighs practically nothing, if however you can get enough velocity behind it you can punch it through brick walls or thick chunks of oak, up until 1985 the standard firearm issued to British forces was the 7.62 calibre L1A1 self loading rifle, a derivative of an FN design, the high muzzle velocity allowed a soldier to punch the round through brick walls and kill whatever was behind it, if you were unlucky enough to get hit in an arm or a leg with the round, you lost the limb from hydrostatic shock or it was just plain missing. The sheer lethality of the round when combined with the high muzzle velocity was one of the many reasons why they were removed from service and replaced with the more humane (lol) L85 SA80 a weapon with a 5.56mm calibre.

The last 30/40 post half been made by only a half dozen people, I think it is time that CCP chimes in and either makes a decision or start to guide the discussion. Us players can continue yelling at each other until we are blue in the face but nothing will be decided by us, unless anyone can think of anything especially relevant and significant I think it would be best if we stop posting until CCP steps in.

To get CCP's attention a thumbs up to this comment probably wouldn't hurt.

I'm sorry but i write it under influence so grammar and spelling may be little off. I hope I did understand you correctly that one miner accomplished successful ganks. So it proves it can be done.

Problem in hisec is that basically it is single player game. I'm sure there are carebears with teeth, united and protective of their flock but most of them react on simple rule: until I'm not directly affected I don't give a fragg what is happening around me. Which is a fail when confronted with MMO effect of organized bumps. MMO as in MassiveMultiplayerOnline. New Order is successful in gathering tears and donations and fees for permits because it is not single player initiative, it is massive multiplayer effort. ! Miner resisting and ganking bumpers will be like a tear in a rain - zero effect, lost in a herd going away from noise. Unified miners ganking bumpers initiative would be excellent example of emerging gameplay and resistance. It would be something that James 315 would post about. Something that could be a light of hope and example how Eve promotes freedom of choice. But show me hisec miner carrying about anything else beside his own lazor pointed at nearest rock.

LOL,

It is amusing to watch those who have come up with a clever exploit waving the flag about how they are 'improving' the game while enrifhing themselves as they deserve.

Such is EVE.

However, whenever and exploit is discovered and utilised excessively it may create significantly advantaged players and disadvantaged players.

Many disadvantaged players cease to play. This affects CCP bottomline; hence exploits, when overused are dealt with by the DEVs.

Mass Ganking miners was a recent exploit and the response was tougher ships for miners.

Organised minerbumping is simply more of the same.
Aren't miners such nice easy targets in HiSec. Why one hardly has to work at all to ruin the game for them. See. Tearful posts. Unseen: multiple unsubs, loss of revenue for CCP.

Just why did the EVE original design have areas of greater and lesser degrees of security? Why bother? Lets just have an all NULL Sec game....and ofc a much smaller player base as those with less tolerance for aggressive players unsub. I am sure CCP will not mind shrinking their subscriber base to just the uber violent gangster type of player. So much easier to be a fun loving terrorist while remaining socially anonymous in a like minded group and insulated from true consequnce. Yeeeah! Refreshing isn't it?


Just wait until players in Orcas can be bountied willy nilly for no reason other than the 20% share of a costly ship!

Enjoy the sandbox....while it lasts.

There are a lot of posters echoing the following sentiment: "Miner bumping should not be an exploit or considered harassment, but miners should have a means to protect themselves against it." (I am referring specifically to miner bumping, because I have no experience with freighter bumping)

This is a fair and reasonable position - the problem is that people are misled by the claim that there are no viable methods for protecting against bumps. Methods exist, but they inevitably require an expenditure of effort that the most vocal miners are unwilling to make.

There is a list of proposed methods on this blog page, and I will try to summarize them below.
proveldtariat.wordpress.com/anti-bump-methods/

1. Orbiting - this decreases the likelihood of bumps and ensures that your ship will eventually return to its original range from your target asteroid, though your mining lasers may be deactivated by that time. Effectiveness increases dramatically when using a barge fit for fast movement with a microwarpdrive. The microwarpdrive also increases your ship's mass by a factor of 5, making each bump less effective.

2. Positioning - Positioning your mining barge closer to asteroids, or ideally even between multiple asteroids, increases the difficulty of bumping you out of range.

3. Webbing - Using in-corp friends or alts to apply stasis webifiers to your mining barge to reduce the effectiveness of a bump.

4. Moving Elsewhere - This strategy is as effective as it is obvious. Miner bumpers do not care to follow you to multiple other systems. Inevitably, the characters who vehemently claim that there are no effective counters to bumping are the ones who fail to try this and insist on remaining in the same system.

5. Suicide Ganking - As a previous poster mentioned, this has apparently been performed with some success against bumping stabbers.

6. Pay for a Mining Permit - It works!!!