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Miner Bumping: Discussion & Questions Thread

First post First post
Author
Von Kroll
Find The Halflings
WE FORM BL0B University
#321 - 2012-11-30 21:01:42 UTC
Ahvram wrote:
[quote=Ahvram][quote=Mallak Azaria][quote=Ahvram]


I just reference goons because your history shows you exploit and defend it to the death intill CCP makes it official. Its been this way for years.

And if you look back I corrected My ABC ore quote. Also Yes I dont like goons but I think EVE would not be the same place without you. Its acctually a rush to out run your camps and fight you guys when you jump up to my home system for your jita runs ect. Im all about this dont get me wrong. But the freighter bumping thing is another one of those things that needs fixing.



^ this

if goons are defending anything that in and of itself because of their history says it needs to be changed. Anything goons defend is only good for goons and not for the greater community. The recent fw exploit is just the most recent one. They constantly find ways to exploit mechanics and never have the best intentions of this game in mind only padding their already massive eve wallets. Also if you make these changes they will still gank but they will just have to commit to the gank and use something more then catalyst. Also i love that their argument is .. "just use a scout" yah cause we all have trillions of isk like goons and can afford multiple accounts like them. Thats not an argument for why the game mechanic isn't broken. Which as i stated in my other post it is broken
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2012-11-30 21:03:50 UTC
Ahvram wrote:
Would take about 2/3 BC to gank a stabber (if the stabber pilot is worth anything). So 2/3 pilots at around 100 mill EA + sec status loss is = to A stabber and you right back at bumping with all reward no risk and free kill rights. Ya thats balanced.

It always comes back to the victims has to risk much and the bumpers risk nothing. Its nothing but a form of pvp that allows you to dodge pvp mechanics to force other pilots to your will.


Alright I quoted the above because it was the first post I could easily find. I am going to try to address what your general theme has been in this discussion however.

To me it seems like you are OK with the bumping mechanic as it pertains to miners but are not OK with the mechanic as it pertains to freighters. I am going to assume that is correct and move forward on that basis.

Your argument is that the miners can warp off and avoid being ganked and loose nothing. To that I say that is outright false. A 2 day old pilot can "Virtual Scram" a hulk just as well as your freighter while they await the gankers to the system. Granted it is more difficult but it can be done.

Secondly EVE has ALWAYS been a game about cooperation. What I mean by that is the game is designed in such a way that specializing in your career path is the only way to be efficient at it. Because of this you need to work as a team with many players to accomplish your goals. Only as a team will you be successful in your endeavors in EVE.

So you flying through space in a ship that may as well be made of money and not expecting others to take notice and gank you is hardly surprising. If you live in low or null you know that flying a Freighter is a dangerous thing. Because of that you usually see a "team" of people all working together to accomplish a goal. I see no reason why you think that should be different in hi-sec. If someone decides to gank you they are going to pay a far bigger penalty then they would in low or null. That is usually deterrent enough to stop MOST people from doing it. It doesn't mean it is safe and you should consider the risks of piloting a 1.2 billion ISK ship through any space solo.

At the end of the day I think what the NO folks have done here is more than just **** off miners. I think it may be a start of the truly dangerous EVE we were all promised when we signed up. One that requires teamwork to survive. There is no reason in my mind folks can't take the ground work that NO has established and apply it to all parts of hi-sec space.

Long story short don't get upset when you come across players that have more cooperation and organization than you. Tip your hat, learn the lesson, and work towards making your own endeavors stronger.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#323 - 2012-11-30 21:08:11 UTC
Ahvram wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
I do use scouts and have stopped using my frieghter for any loads over a billion isk thats not the point. The point is the ability to basically warp scramble a frieghter without aggression. You have the full ability to lock another players ship down with them having no means to stop you. If you tried to do this the way it was intended with a warp scrambler you would be concorded. You are using and exploiting a broken game mechanic to avoid using the one and only pvp module that can prevent a player from warping.


No we don't have the full ability, because there is & always will be ways to avoid it. Try them out some time & be pleasantly surrised.



Please enlighten me on how a solo freighter pilot can prevent this from happening? Remember this can be done anywhere at any time so avoiding hot systems isnt and answer thats valid. Using and alt or corpmate last I check wasnt required in the ships description to pilot it.


You're playing a multiplayer game. Make friends if you don't to pay for another account. For the rest of the things you can do, there is apparently a thread on the subject on the well known child pornography forum known as Reddit. There was also an article on themittani.com & there is probably one on EN24 (maybe) aswell. there is also effective counters listed on the EVEwiki.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#324 - 2012-11-30 21:12:02 UTC
Von Kroll wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
[quote=Ahvram][quote=Mallak Azaria][quote=Ahvram]


I just reference goons because your history shows you exploit and defend it to the death intill CCP makes it official. Its been this way for years.

And if you look back I corrected My ABC ore quote. Also Yes I dont like goons but I think EVE would not be the same place without you. Its acctually a rush to out run your camps and fight you guys when you jump up to my home system for your jita runs ect. Im all about this dont get me wrong. But the freighter bumping thing is another one of those things that needs fixing.



^ this

if goons are defending anything that in and of itself because of their history says it needs to be changed. Anything goons defend is only good for goons and not for the greater community. The recent fw exploit is just the most recent one. They constantly find ways to exploit mechanics and never have the best intentions of this game in mind only padding their already massive eve wallets. Also if you make these changes they will still gank but they will just have to commit to the gank and use something more then catalyst. Also i love that their argument is .. "just use a scout" yah cause we all have trillions of isk like goons and can afford multiple accounts like them. Thats not an argument for why the game mechanic isn't broken. Which as i stated in my other post it is broken



It's my quote to say "use a scout". Not their's. They want your isk, I want freewill from players. And you don't need a scout ALT. Just someone to scout for you. Simple concept, and in my original post mentioning using a scout, I gave an example. You don't need trillions of isk. You only need someone willing to help you. That isn't even counting hiring one to escort you the entire way.

FFS, just get a buddy to be 1-2 jumps ahead in a cruiser, not even cloaked, that can form the words "yes, it's safe to jump".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#325 - 2012-11-30 21:14:35 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
I do use scouts and have stopped using my frieghter for any loads over a billion isk thats not the point. The point is the ability to basically warp scramble a frieghter without aggression. You have the full ability to lock another players ship down with them having no means to stop you. If you tried to do this the way it was intended with a warp scrambler you would be concorded. You are using and exploiting a broken game mechanic to avoid using the one and only pvp module that can prevent a player from warping.


No we don't have the full ability, because there is & always will be ways to avoid it. Try them out some time & be pleasantly surrised.



Please enlighten me on how a solo freighter pilot can prevent this from happening? Remember this can be done anywhere at any time so avoiding hot systems isnt and answer thats valid. Using and alt or corpmate last I check wasnt required in the ships description to pilot it.


You're playing a multiplayer game. Make friends if you don't to pay for another account. For the rest of the things you can do, there is apparently a thread on the subject on the well known child pornography forum known as Reddit. There was also an article on themittani.com & there is probably one on EN24 (maybe) aswell. there is also effective counters listed on the EVEwiki.



Not to mention countless blogs and not only evewiki, but e-uni sites that are public as well. Tons and tons of content to learn how to do any profession. Not hand holding, but basic guidelines.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2012-11-30 21:17:14 UTC
Von Kroll wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
[quote=Ahvram][quote=Mallak Azaria][quote=Ahvram]


I just reference goons because your history shows you exploit and defend it to the death intill CCP makes it official. Its been this way for years.

And if you look back I corrected My ABC ore quote. Also Yes I dont like goons but I think EVE would not be the same place without you. Its acctually a rush to out run your camps and fight you guys when you jump up to my home system for your jita runs ect. Im all about this dont get me wrong. But the freighter bumping thing is another one of those things that needs fixing.



^ this

if goons are defending anything that in and of itself because of their history says it needs to be changed. Anything goons defend is only good for goons and not for the greater community. The recent fw exploit is just the most recent one. They constantly find ways to exploit mechanics and never have the best intentions of this game in mind only padding their already massive eve wallets. Also if you make these changes they will still gank but they will just have to commit to the gank and use something more then catalyst. Also i love that their argument is .. "just use a scout" yah cause we all have trillions of isk like goons and can afford multiple accounts like them. Thats not an argument for why the game mechanic isn't broken. Which as i stated in my other post it is broken


Funny thing about the FW thing is it was our marketing team that brought up the issue with CCP while it was on the test server. They didn't listen so we did it anyway. At no point did we defend FW farmville, but we'd have been stupid to not take advantage of it while it was around.

You don't need multiple accounts to be able to take active measures to avoid things or mitigate the risk. Make friends, work with others.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Von Kroll
Find The Halflings
WE FORM BL0B University
#327 - 2012-11-30 21:24:35 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.

Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all.


Funny how we've been putting these facts in to practice for years now. There is no right way to PvP. You need to get this idea out of your head, because every action in this game is PvP, even mining & mission running. the only one that has run out of arguments is you, since you keep referring to a valid game mechanic as an emploit what it's not.

Take active measure to defend yourself & stop playing the victim card.

goons keep arguing that it's a valid game mechanic which is stupid. We all know that it is a valid game mechanic (now) but this is about whether that mechanic is flawed and whether it or other mechanics are exploited. The opinion of a lot of people not in goons is that you have abused the bumping and 15minute aggression timer mechanics and thats why there is now discussion about changing one or both of these mechanics. Just as many other things that were valid game mechanics before goons abused them and they had to be changed. I'm hoping miner and freighter bumping or the 15minute aggression timer are things that are changed so that you are no longer allowed to grief people that have much less then you. Other people have a right to play this game and have fun with out goons imposing their will on them just because you have exploited this game so that you have more in game wealth and resources then anybody. This is eve online not goons online.. (as much as you'd like it to be)
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#328 - 2012-11-30 21:31:14 UTC
Von Kroll wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.

Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all.


Funny how we've been putting these facts in to practice for years now. There is no right way to PvP. You need to get this idea out of your head, because every action in this game is PvP, even mining & mission running. the only one that has run out of arguments is you, since you keep referring to a valid game mechanic as an emploit what it's not.

Take active measure to defend yourself & stop playing the victim card.

goons keep arguing that it's a valid game mechanic which is stupid. We all know that it is a valid game mechanic (now) but this is about whether that mechanic is flawed and whether it or other mechanics are exploited. The opinion of a lot of people not in goons is that you have abused the bumping and 15minute aggression timer mechanics and thats why there is now discussion about changing one or both of these mechanics. Just as many other things that were valid game mechanics before goons abused them and they had to be changed. I'm hoping miner and freighter bumping or the 15minute aggression timer are things that are changed so that you are no longer allowed to grief people that have much less then you. Other people have a right to play this game and have fun with out goons imposing their will on them just because you have exploited this game so that you have more in game wealth and resources then anybody. This is eve online not goons online.. (as much as you'd like it to be)



Those same people blame the cooking pot company for burning their hands because they don't realize that a pot holder or towel might be needed. Well guess what, you put the burner on, with a metal pot. It's gonna be warm.

Btw, thanks for the "caution: coffee handed to you by employee is hot" stickers.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Missette
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2012-11-30 21:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Missette
Bumping's fine, we're spaceships in space, bumping happens. Just make the Physics is close to correct. I know that Eve has never really inteded this to be a physics based game, but a small ship, even moving quite fast, should not be able to significanly move a ship 100x its size off course.

Just make a simple conservation of momentum equation:

bumper mass x velocity + bumpee mass x velocity = bumper mass x velocity +bumpee mass x velocity. even if you put all the momentum into the ship that is bumped it will still be far better than the current system.

A frigate should never be able to blow a battlecruiser sized vessle far off course, even if he is screaming at 10,000 m/s.

10,000 m/s x 10,000 kg + 100 m/s x 10,000,000 kg = 100,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 = 1,100,000,000 kgm/s

1,100000000 kg-m/s / 10,000,000 kg = 110 m/s. done the big ship is moving 110 m/s after collision, and the small shipped is stopped.

I haven't actually looked at the mass values provided for each ship, someone can feel free to perform actual calculations if they think it is important.

edit: fixed some commas and added some units.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#330 - 2012-11-30 21:48:26 UTC
Von Kroll wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.

Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all.


Funny how we've been putting these facts in to practice for years now. There is no right way to PvP. You need to get this idea out of your head, because every action in this game is PvP, even mining & mission running. the only one that has run out of arguments is you, since you keep referring to a valid game mechanic as an emploit what it's not.

Take active measure to defend yourself & stop playing the victim card.

goons keep arguing that it's a valid game mechanic which is stupid. We all know that it is a valid game mechanic (now) but this is about whether that mechanic is flawed and whether it or other mechanics are exploited. The opinion of a lot of people not in goons is that you have abused the bumping and 15minute aggression timer mechanics and thats why there is now discussion about changing one or both of these mechanics. Just as many other things that were valid game mechanics before goons abused them and they had to be changed. I'm hoping miner and freighter bumping or the 15minute aggression timer are things that are changed so that you are no longer allowed to grief people that have much less then you. Other people have a right to play this game and have fun with out goons imposing their will on them just because you have exploited this game so that you have more in game wealth and resources then anybody. This is eve online not goons online.. (as much as you'd like it to be)


I'll have you know that many of the freighter pilots I've helped gank have had much more than me. The 15 minute agression time was brought in to the game because supercaps weren't dying along with many other people who were escaping death by simply logging out of the game. It wasn't just goons avoiding death by logging out, everyone was doing it.

Saying that something needs to be changed because a few goons are doing something isn't really a good way to get a point across. There are plenty of things that desperately need changes that we don't do, such as nullsec industry.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#331 - 2012-11-30 21:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
Missette wrote:
Bumping's fine, we're spaceships in space, bumping happens. Just make the Physics is close to correct. I know that Eve has never really inteded this to be a physics based game, but a small ship, even moving quite fast, should not be able to significanly move a ship 100x its size off course.

Just make a simple conservation of momentum equation:

bumper mass x velocity + bumpee mass x velocity = bumper mass x velocity +bumpee mass x velocity. even if you put all the momentum into the ship that is bumped it will still be far better than the current system.

A frigate should never be able to blow a battlecruiser sized vessle far off course, even if he is screaming at 10,000 m/s.

10,000 m/s x 10,000 kg + 100 m/s x 10,000,000 kg = 100,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 = 1,100,000,000 kgm/s

1,100000000 kg-m/s / 10,000,000 kg = 110 m/s. done the big ship is moving 110 m/s after collision, and the small shipped is stopped.

I haven't actually looked at the mass values provided for each ship, someone can feel free to perform actual calculations if they think it is important.

edit: fixed some commas and added some units.

You missed out the bit where it causes an explosion big enough to wipe out both ships several times over as well as any others in the vicinity.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#332 - 2012-11-30 22:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Missette wrote:
Bumping's fine, we're spaceships in space, bumping happens. Just make the Physics is close to correct. I know that Eve has never really inteded this to be a physics based game, but a small ship, even moving quite fast, should not be able to significanly move a ship 100x its size off course.

Just make a simple conservation of momentum equation:

bumper mass x velocity + bumpee mass x velocity = bumper mass x velocity +bumpee mass x velocity. even if you put all the momentum into the ship that is bumped it will still be far better than the current system.

A frigate should never be able to blow a battlecruiser sized vessle far off course, even if he is screaming at 10,000 m/s.

10,000 m/s x 10,000 kg + 100 m/s x 10,000,000 kg = 100,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 = 1,100,000,000 kgm/s

1,100000000 kg-m/s / 10,000,000 kg = 110 m/s. done the big ship is moving 110 m/s after collision, and the small shipped is stopped.

I haven't actually looked at the mass values provided for each ship, someone can feel free to perform actual calculations if they think it is important.

edit: fixed some commas and added some units.


With reference to the correct physics of collisions I'll refer you back to this post, A frigate tanking along at 4000m/s isn't going to move any ship it hits, it's going to completely obliterate it regardless of size, the kinetic energy involved is huge.

For a real life example we'll take ammunition, a 7.62mm round weighs practically nothing, if however you can get enough velocity behind it you can punch it through brick walls or thick chunks of oak, up until 1985 the standard firearm issued to British forces was the 7.62 calibre L1A1 self loading rifle, a derivative of an FN design, the high muzzle velocity allowed a soldier to punch the round through brick walls and kill whatever was behind it, if you were unlucky enough to get hit in an arm or a leg with the round, you lost the limb from hydrostatic shock or it was just plain missing. The sheer lethality of the round when combined with the high muzzle velocity was one of the many reasons why they were removed from service and replaced with the more humane (lol) L85 SA80 a weapon with a 5.56mm calibre.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Hyperspatia Lee
Careby Exploration
#333 - 2012-11-30 23:54:09 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
With reference to the correct physics of collisions I'll refer you back to...


The point is not to make the physics accurate - if that happened we'd have a lot more problems than being obliterated by an errant Ibis. The point is to make it a wee bit more accurate. I can suspend my disbelief enough to pretend I'm flying around in a space ship at ludicrous speed, while retaining enough skepticism to find the current bumping physics incongruent.

On another note, I wonder how the upcoming "safe logoff timer" mechanic will work with bumping. If being bumped is not aggression, then maybe it will allow logging off safely from a bumping attack.

M0N0
The Right Hand of Darwin
#334 - 2012-11-30 23:58:27 UTC
The last 30/40 post half been made by only a half dozen people, I think it is time that CCP chimes in and either makes a decision or start to guide the discussion. Us players can continue yelling at each other until we are blue in the face but nothing will be decided by us, unless anyone can think of anything especially relevant and significant I think it would be best if we stop posting until CCP steps in.

To get CCP's attention a thumbs up to this comment probably wouldn't hurt.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#335 - 2012-12-01 00:03:22 UTC
Hyperspatia Lee wrote:
On another note, I wonder how the upcoming "safe logoff timer" mechanic will work with bumping. If being bumped is not aggression, then maybe it will allow logging off safely from a bumping attack.



You can already do this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#336 - 2012-12-01 00:22:11 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Last post on minerbumping.com is a mini guide what to train and how to fit a nice ganking catalyst. But you know, miners can train for those too. Can you imagine how much propaganda you could spin after suicide ganking bumping crew? But to do it you would need that thing, how is it called? Oh, I know: BALLS!



In the past few months, I've seen one miner fit a competent catalyst and attempt to gank the lesser tanked stabbers roaming the ice fields. She took out 2 of them if I recall correctly(2 out of 2 tries, so 100% success rate), but didn't follow the bumpers on their next move as most of the anti-bumpers posting in this thread do, so I haven't seen her since. This both proves that ganking is a real risk for the bumpers, if any miner were willing to attempt it and spend the 20 minutes fitting a proper catalyst first; and also proves that 99.9% of miners aren't willing to put forth any real effort defending themselves properly.


I'm sorry but i write it under influence so grammar and spelling may be little off. I hope I did understand you correctly that one miner accomplished successful ganks. So it proves it can be done.

Problem in hisec is that basically it is single player game. I'm sure there are carebears with teeth, united and protective of their flock but most of them react on simple rule: until I'm not directly affected I don't give a fragg what is happening around me. Which is a fail when confronted with MMO effect of organized bumps. MMO as in MassiveMultiplayerOnline. New Order is successful in gathering tears and donations and fees for permits because it is not single player initiative, it is massive multiplayer effort. ! Miner resisting and ganking bumpers will be like a tear in a rain - zero effect, lost in a herd going away from noise. Unified miners ganking bumpers initiative would be excellent example of emerging gameplay and resistance. It would be something that James 315 would post about. Something that could be a light of hope and example how Eve promotes freedom of choice. But show me hisec miner carrying about anything else beside his own lazor pointed at nearest rock.

Invalid signature format

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#337 - 2012-12-01 00:28:58 UTC
this thread is officially hijacked by bitter freighter pilots.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Solarius Elrond
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#338 - 2012-12-01 00:45:02 UTC
LOL,

It is amusing to watch those who have come up with a clever exploit waving the flag about how they are 'improving' the game while enrifhing themselves as they deserve.

Such is EVE.

However, whenever and exploit is discovered and utilised excessively it may create significantly advantaged players and disadvantaged players.

Many disadvantaged players cease to play. This affects CCP bottomline; hence exploits, when overused are dealt with by the DEVs.

Mass Ganking miners was a recent exploit and the response was tougher ships for miners.

Organised minerbumping is simply more of the same.
Aren't miners such nice easy targets in HiSec. Why one hardly has to work at all to ruin the game for them. See. Tearful posts. Unseen: multiple unsubs, loss of revenue for CCP.

Just why did the EVE original design have areas of greater and lesser degrees of security? Why bother? Lets just have an all NULL Sec game....and ofc a much smaller player base as those with less tolerance for aggressive players unsub. I am sure CCP will not mind shrinking their subscriber base to just the uber violent gangster type of player. So much easier to be a fun loving terrorist while remaining socially anonymous in a like minded group and insulated from true consequnce. Yeeeah! Refreshing isn't it?


Just wait until players in Orcas can be bountied willy nilly for no reason other than the 20% share of a costly ship!

Enjoy the sandbox....while it lasts.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#339 - 2012-12-01 00:49:35 UTC
Solarius Elrond wrote:


Just wait until players in Orcas can be bountied willy nilly for no reason other than the 20% share of a costly ship!

Enjoy the sandbox....while it lasts.


The placing of bounties will effect players how?, a bounty is not an open invitation for a free for all gank party, concord will still intervene if there is no killrights or wardec involved.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2012-12-01 01:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alana Charen-Teng
There are a lot of posters echoing the following sentiment: "Miner bumping should not be an exploit or considered harassment, but miners should have a means to protect themselves against it." (I am referring specifically to miner bumping, because I have no experience with freighter bumping)

This is a fair and reasonable position - the problem is that people are misled by the claim that there are no viable methods for protecting against bumps. Methods exist, but they inevitably require an expenditure of effort that the most vocal miners are unwilling to make.

There is a list of proposed methods on this blog page, and I will try to summarize them below.
proveldtariat.wordpress.com/anti-bump-methods/

1. Orbiting - this decreases the likelihood of bumps and ensures that your ship will eventually return to its original range from your target asteroid, though your mining lasers may be deactivated by that time. Effectiveness increases dramatically when using a barge fit for fast movement with a microwarpdrive. The microwarpdrive also increases your ship's mass by a factor of 5, making each bump less effective.

2. Positioning - Positioning your mining barge closer to asteroids, or ideally even between multiple asteroids, increases the difficulty of bumping you out of range.

3. Webbing - Using in-corp friends or alts to apply stasis webifiers to your mining barge to reduce the effectiveness of a bump.

4. Moving Elsewhere - This strategy is as effective as it is obvious. Miner bumpers do not care to follow you to multiple other systems. Inevitably, the characters who vehemently claim that there are no effective counters to bumping are the ones who fail to try this and insist on remaining in the same system.

5. Suicide Ganking - As a previous poster mentioned, this has apparently been performed with some success against bumping stabbers.

6. Pay for a Mining Permit - It works!!!