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Crime & Punishment

 
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Miner Bumping: Discussion & Questions Thread

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#281 - 2012-11-30 18:56:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Ahvram wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


A 10mn Stabber does a fine job pushing a mining ship around a belt. You guys are great the defense gets weaker and weaker the more its pulled apart. Why cant you just say "We like to pvp without acctually having to follow pvp mechanic because that would be to hard for us"


Have you personally ship scanned and attempted to gank bumping ships? I'm claiming that I've witnessed one (1) single catalyst gank bumping stabbers with great success. Have you tried and failed? Perhaps we could help you with your fit/skills?



Ive never stepped foot in and Ice belt and when I do mine I have dealt with bumpers before. Honestly I would not even be in this thread if CCP falcon had not closed the other thread about freighter bumping. Im agaist bumping as a whole seeing as its going to be the only way to stop goons from exploiting freighters for easy kills. I agree with it as a game mechanic and it does have its uses but if it being in game means the goons get free warp scrams on any freighter they single out im all for putting and end to it.

A good mechanic abused by people who need exploits to achieve there goals.



So you think it's a valid mechanic & an exploit at the same time? You need to brush up on your definition of an exploit.

Ahvram wrote:


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.


No, ABC ore miners get blown up. Do you really have any idea of what you're talking about, or are you jumping on the anti-goon bandwagon just because?

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Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2012-11-30 18:57:10 UTC
Ahvram wrote:


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.



I still don't believe you, as you've provided no proof, and your story is highly improbable. If you're mining ABC ores, why wouldn't that alleged Machariel pilot just jump in a Talos or Cat and blow you up quickly and safely, holding you in place with a reliable warp scram?
Ross Sylibus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#283 - 2012-11-30 18:59:05 UTC
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
Ross Sylibus wrote:

This debate is not at all about the actual function of the bumping mechanic - it is about what kind of game EVE is. If CCP has such a vision they should simply consult it and act accordingly related to this particular issue - if they don't, then broader discussion needs to first occur to determine the answer to that larger question before we continue down this path of tweaking minor details that only serve to embody the actualization of that vision.


...

I believe these posts cut to the heart of the matter, and I disagree with moderators removing the content of the first post I quoted. The debate over whether miner bumping should be permissible is a proxy for the debate over what the core principles of EVE, as a social game, are.

...

Bumping miners, selling mining permits, and writing entertaining blog posts is, at bottom, a tool used to draw attention to a stark contrast in opinions regarding this question: should players be affected by other players, even when the former do not specifically desire it? I believe the answer must be 'Yes" - this is an essential part of EVE. Miner bumping, like wardecs, should not constitute harassment.


I think this is the key question - it is about non-consensual interaction between players. Miner bumping falls in this category, as does ganking and a variety of other such high sec activities. I honestly believe that considering miner bumping in a vacuum is not the right approach...it is a very small part of the whole and should be considered in light of the overall strategy for where this game is going - it is a piece to be moved/addressed to strengthen the realization of that strategy and not a separate issue to be taken on independently without thought for the overall strategic direction of EVE.
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#284 - 2012-11-30 19:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.

Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all.


Funny how we've been putting these facts in to practice for years now. There is no right way to PvP. You need to get this idea out of your head, because every action in this game is PvP, even mining & mission running. the only one that has run out of arguments is you, since you keep referring to a valid game mechanic as an emploit what it's not.

Take active measure to defend yourself & stop playing the victim card.



So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

*snip*

EDIT: Rumour mongering is against forum rules - ISD Type40.
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#285 - 2012-11-30 19:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahvram
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.



I still don't believe you, as you've provided no proof, and your story is highly improbable. If you're mining ABC ores, why wouldn't that alleged Machariel pilot just jump in a Talos or Cat and blow you up quickly and safely, holding you in place with a reliable warp scram?



Because they find it more fun to push you around a belt doing 1800 m/s in a mach till you give.... or can warp off which isnt usally the case. And please dont act like these people work alone. Ive seen it a dozen times in my home system. Cat and mach enter your belt mach begins to knock you all over. Option is given to pay or be popped by the Cat.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2012-11-30 19:04:03 UTC
87102-6 wrote:

But the straw that broke the camel's back was the following:

Quote:
Besides, you don't dictate how I play, or how I speak/converse with others. It's my game. Not yours.

There is absolutely nothing -- I repeat, NOTHING -- constructive or positive about a player base where people insist "you cannot dictate how I play/what I say" while in the exact same thread witnessing an entire organisation of individuals who spend their time in-game doing exactly that.
[/quote]


You misunderstand the issue completely. The point of saying "you don't dictate how I play", is to point out that if you want to affect someone else's game, you're supposed to log in and take actions within the game mechanics that affect their game. Like minerbumpers do :) To skip the logging in and playing the game part, and to just attempt to dictate how they play by telling them your opinion, is antithetical to our understanding of EVE online. I'm sorry that this distinction has eluded you, and that your frustration at not understanding this distinction takes you to such a drastic step, but it does exist, and it's what minerbumping is all about :)
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2012-11-30 19:06:39 UTC
Ahvram wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


Because Miner bumping only happen in ICE belts right? I mean there is no one who goes around bumping the ABC ore miners and demanding ISK?? Your reply is on par with the goon. Empty and pointless

And lets not forget I didnt ask to post here I was forced to post here by CCP.


Well, to be honest, yes, I did think there was literally no one going around bumping ABC ore miners and demanding ISK. Are you claiming that there are? If so, do you have proof of this assertion?


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.


High sec has ABCs? Man what is left of null sec mining just died right there
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2012-11-30 19:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Ahvram wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.



I still don't believe you, as you've provided no proof, and your story is highly improbable. If you're mining ABC ores, why wouldn't that alleged Machariel pilot just jump in a Talos or Cat and blow you up quickly and safely, holding you in place with a reliable warp scram?



Because they find it more fun to push you around a belt doing 1800 m/s in a mach till you give.... or can warp off which isnt usally the case.



Well, I still don't believe you, but if we assume that actually happens...since you're in null-sec mining ABC ores in a retriever, and they're risking a bill+ isk ship which you could easily kill with a modicum of planning, how is that an issue that should be changed?


Ustrello wrote:
High sec has ABCs? Man what is left of null sec mining just died right there


Well I've been reading his posts as him claiming that people are bumping ABC miners in belts in nullsec, with machariels, which is the only literal reading of his posts, but seems incredibly improbable.
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#289 - 2012-11-30 19:10:43 UTC
87102-6,

That's weak.

EvE
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#290 - 2012-11-30 19:11:22 UTC
Ustrello wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


Because Miner bumping only happen in ICE belts right? I mean there is no one who goes around bumping the ABC ore miners and demanding ISK?? Your reply is on par with the goon. Empty and pointless

And lets not forget I didnt ask to post here I was forced to post here by CCP.


Well, to be honest, yes, I did think there was literally no one going around bumping ABC ore miners and demanding ISK. Are you claiming that there are? If so, do you have proof of this assertion?


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.


High sec has ABCs? Man what is left of null sec mining just died right there


Ya my fault on saying ABC. Just plain old astroid belts. Im sure you people knew what I ment but you got a few freebee post to get things off topic.
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2012-11-30 19:11:43 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Ahvram wrote:


Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.

If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.



I still don't believe you, as you've provided no proof, and your story is highly improbable. If you're mining ABC ores, why wouldn't that alleged Machariel pilot just jump in a Talos or Cat and blow you up quickly and safely, holding you in place with a reliable warp scram?



Because they find it more fun to push you around a belt doing 1800 m/s in a mach till you give.... or can warp off which isnt usally the case.



Well, I still don't believe you, but if we assume that actually happens...since you're in null-sec mining ABC ores in a retriever, and they're risking a bill+ isk ship which you could easily kill with a modicum of planning, how is that an issue that should be changed?


Ustrello wrote:
High sec has ABCs? Man what is left of null sec mining just died right there


Well I've been reading his posts as him claiming that people are bumping ABC miners in belts in nullsec, with machariels, which is the only literal reading of his posts, but seems incredibly improbable.


If that is true he is either a horrible troll or a really dumb pubbie
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#292 - 2012-11-30 19:12:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ahvram wrote:

So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings


How is a freighter pilot forced to take a route that has a chokepoint?, there are ways around them, they just involve many more jumps, said freighter pilot chooses to take the shortest route.

On the subject of collisions causing damage, given that the formula for kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2, m is mass in KG, V is velocity in m/s (assuming Newtonian Physics). A rifter weighing 1,067,000KG (source) travelling at 4000m/s has 8,536,000,000 kilojoules of kinetic energy to transfer to whatever it hits, that's not going to just disintegrate a barge, it's going to break it down into its atomic components. That's a bare rifter hull, before the mass increase that a MWD brings into the equation. Bring in real world collision damage and you'll see ships just disappearing into the ether without a single shot being fired.

To put it in context, imagine a human, being slapped in the face with a hammer, the size of the empire state building.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Alliria Seedspawn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-11-30 19:13:04 UTC
I would like to see bumping become an act of aggression. There would need to be a force threshold or something like this to ensure low speed accidental bumps are not causing a hit to security status or causing people to lose ships (think Jita undock).

I don't know what a proper threshold would be, but If your bump is hard enough, it's considered an act of aggression that is extended to the entire fleet, and my entire fleet can engage. This would provide those miners with the ability to fight back, and would give the freighters a reason to hire an escort.

I believe it's a valid game mechanic IF the person doing the bumping is penalized (if in high or low sec) for being a menace, and the person being bumped is able to retaliate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2012-11-30 19:13:36 UTC
Hyperspatia Lee wrote:
I do support a change to Eve bumping mechanics to make them more closely approximate real life physics.

A ship of relatively small mass bumping a much larger ship should bounce off with a relatively smaller effect on the inertia of the larger ship.

What players choose to bump, and when and why, does not in my humble opinion need to be addressed or changed.




That would also assist in trying to block a freighter from reaching a gate as well. I'm all for collision mechanics to be adjusted or even removed. I'm all against for restricting gameplay since it really does not have any sort of permanent effect other than 1 person being too bullheaded and not wanting to adjust (wether it be miner or bumper is moot since both are people/players and choose their own actions).

That's what I still don't understand in this thread... the first time I went into lowsec to start my own PI, I got ransomed at the first station I docked at. And systematically blown up.

I didn't cry about being ransomed or griefed (I couldn't undock!), I flew out after I was in my own special green blob (capsule) and never went back to lowsec.

Such as PI's needing a planet to work, I understand exhumers need something to mine... but there are other places to go or avoid, or you suffer consequences.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#295 - 2012-11-30 19:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Ahvram wrote:
So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings


Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actually work if you put in the tiny amounts of effort required). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt.

A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#296 - 2012-11-30 19:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
87102-6 wrote:
Well I've had my chance to review the last 3-4 pages of posts. I also went back and read pages 4-8 for context (well, what hadn't been edited out by ISD, but I think I remember what folks said). I appreciate people trying to stay on topic per CCP Falcon's requirements, and I've already stated my two cents repeatedly, as have folks on the other side of the fence.

I've effectively tried to meet NO folks half way (so-to-speak) with a list of recommendations on how to to "settle down" (as in keep extorting but to tone very specific aspects down so that they might not be classified by some (including me) as harassment) -- and remember, I'm one of the few miners who would rather be ganked and blown up than bumped repeatedly while being condescended up in Local -- but have yet to see the same done in return.

But the straw that broke the camel's back was the following:

Quote:
Besides, you don't dictate how I play, or how I speak/converse with others. It's my game. Not yours.

There is absolutely nothing -- I repeat, NOTHING -- constructive or positive about a player base where people insist "you cannot dictate how I play/what I say" while in the exact same thread witnessing an entire organisation of individuals who spend their time in-game doing exactly that.

Needless to say -- and please don't take this as the action of a martyr -- I will be cancelling my subscription after making this post. This conflicts with what I said in my Assembly Hall thread (2nd-to-last paragraph), but the situation there was only heated, not downright utterly ignorant to the point of nausea. I had the same happen when I witnessed one NO member in this thread proposing that another player need provide an API key to validate some argument/point -- just that proposition itself encapsulates the malicious spirit of NO.

Remember: extortion is done for financial or material gain, and its been repeatedly stated by all NOA and James that the modus operandi of NO is not that. No amount of spin-doctoring can trump common sense.

I had higher hopes that the EVE community in general had somehow achieved the ability to be what the real world calls "reasonable" -- i.e. being able to disagree with another person and say "well I guess we just see it differently and that's okay". Being reasonable is not pompous, type-A, or borderline sociopathic. (Note: for some reason I'm now thinking of King Missile quotes: "Love is not a shipload of slaughtered pigs rotting and festering in the bleating desert" :D ). Those hopes were my own, so I guess you could say the only person I have to blame for that is myself. C'est la vie.

To CCP Falcon -- thank you for making this thread (and our conversation!) and giving folks a chance to air their views. I didn't expect anyone to do that, so that's at least one positive thing I can take away from this experience. Takk fyrir.



Yes I can in fact say that. I can say "pay me 10million isk or risk bump". You cannot say I can't. You can easily NOT be in the same system, I CANNOT keep following you without risk of being petitioned and/or banned for "harassment".

Did the concept of freewill sink in yet? NO ONE is making you do anything. They are telling you what CAN happen if you ignore a warning.

You have the right to do the same exact thing. But you cannot tell me I can't dock or make my own choices.

Sorry you don't agree, but it's my game, not your's. (The same words work if you say them to me by the way).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#297 - 2012-11-30 19:26:43 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings


Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actuallt work). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt.

A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%.


Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is:

A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped.

B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#298 - 2012-11-30 19:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Ahvram wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings


Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actuallt work). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt.

A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%.


Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is:

A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped.

B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank.



Can't d-scan or employ a scout for such avoidance? Or would that be too close to "pay 10mil isk or risk bump"?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#299 - 2012-11-30 19:34:26 UTC
Ahvram wrote:
Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is:

A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped.

B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank.



Considering I do this stuff, I can tell you that everything you have said is completely false. I will now tell you in simple terms, so you can perhaps understand.

Firstly; A destroyer is unable to keep a freighter locked down with bumping. This is due to it's limited mass & size along with it's inability to fit a larger MWD.

Secondly; A Catalyst or Thraser is unable to gank a miner on it's own anymore because of the barge buff. You need 2 very well fit & rigged destroyers to do this, but 3 is the recommendation.

Thirdly; MWD destroyer does not lock you down with bumps due to the reason already stated. I can tell you first hand that it takes 3 100MN Stabber Fleet Issue or 2 Machariels to keep a freighter from warping. If that freighter is being webbed, then often we don't even get the chance to scan it's cargo because they enter warp so fast.

If you want to influence change, you first need to know what you're talking about.

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Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#300 - 2012-11-30 19:34:31 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ahvram wrote:
So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.

Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings


Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actuallt work). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt.

A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%.


Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is:

A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped.

B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank.



Can't d-scan or employ a scout for such avoidance? Or would that be too close to "pay 10mil isk or risk bump"?


Its great how everyone has and answer for miner bumping but no one can give a solid reason how locking a frieghter down (Basically warp scram without aggression) is valid.