Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I just want to point out a few things for you all so we can have a break in this tired, circle jerking argument.

First: The removal/change in local.

Problem A: Carebears will no longer have a instant supply system that will give them flawless information.
Fix Part 1: Well, guess what that means fellows! Thats ******* right, pirates no longer have a flawless information system as well, so that means they will have to probe down every system they fly though so they can even see of there anyone in the system to even kill, and if anyone knows a lick about probing will know that will be a pain in the arse, and cause MOST not all but MOST pirates to take a break after like an hour of probing like 10 systems and finding nothing.
Fix Part 2: Probe ships, as well as a escort fleets will now be in a much higher demand! Ither it a merc, or not if you ever wanted to be a dedicated prober, you now have a much higher value. Fleets made to gaurd, and/or patrol would also have a bigger value as well as they patrol the area to make sure that no one stealing their ****.

Problem B: AFK cloaking would no longer be a value tool of trolling
Fix: AFK cloaking is no longer be a value tool of trolling

Problem C: Cloaking ships will now become rather over powering, you will no longer know they are there, so thus you will never beable to tell when a fleet of 100 cloakers are all around you.
Fix: If local does get /fix/ then there will be a need to produce an cloak hunter mods/ships.

In order for your last concern to be valid, you would need heavy activity in the places where ISK is to be had.

This is in conflict with your expectation of null to be deserted due to the changes.

Are you suggesting that a few pilots or groups will concentrate activities to compensate for the overall loss of pilot presence?

Lord Zim's original point was that WH's would object to their balance being changed, specifically by being able to hunt cloaked vessels.

I have maintained that IF it is necessary to leave WH's out of these changes, it is possible to block the use of tools to hunt cloaked ships. Such tools are expected by many to appear in the event local becomes fully delayed or otherwise made useless for intel.

I always leave it to the devs on this point. If they would prefer to leave WHs out of this aspect, or if they decide WHs would want this even more.

Honestly, I think they could have a lot of fun with it. The other aspects blocking cynos and similar limits would still be unchanged.

Take a look at all the threads for fixing afk cloaking. Every time someone suggests anything which makes intel gathering worse in WHs, such as ships to detect cloaked ships, cloak fuel etc, they get all up in arms about it, decrying you'd make WHs safer than they already are.

Man I never seen some so scared of a change as zim seams to be.

And about adding items of value to null, yea inflation can be off set by taxes in high sec.

Aka gate taxes to support concord, taxes for gate upkeep, docking fees.

You can code them in easily to suck liquid ISK out of the game, they can be as small as 300 ISK a time and the drain will be enormous, and what if you don't have any risks well can't do any of that in empire better go shoot a belt rat. Or beg.

>>>>Wait... WH's are safe?

I completely agree, specifying that they are safe relative to the level of reward is very important.
It ties together the fundamental idea that risk and reward should relate.

So why do you feel the relative risk to reward would not be kept in balance?
Null and WH's will never be identical, regardless of whether Local Chat is the same in them.

I feel the devs can balance this after such a change, and you will find your concerns unrealized.


Better yet, let's have concord pop over to null sec and clean house.
If we are going to toss straw man arguments back and forth, I think creativity should be present!

Oh, I am listening to you. I don't agree with everything you say, but I think you make a few good points.

I am suggesting that null raise the bar on gathering intel, create a means to hunt cloaked vessels as a part of that, and confirm that risk vs reward makes sense.

If the limits to risk in WH systems seems low, keep in mind the lack of convenience getting in and out of these systems keeps out the pilots who hit med clones too often. Kills tend to drop off when the discrepancy in skill is diminished by this filtering effect.

I suspect that Zim may have given up on making his case.

I dunno, I think he wants to convert high sec into an arena game by the sound of that last bit.

Who knows? If people think EVE Arena is fun, he could be a hero just for suggesting it.

He wasn't talking about monitary inflation he said item inflation. Meaning that the market would be flooded with such and such item crashing its price. Also gate taxes are dumb.