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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Suicide Never Felt So Good

Author
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-28 19:41:02 UTC
So, I had an idea for a module.


Electronic Dusruption Field Generator

Can be fitted on pretty much any ship.


When activating this module it begins a 5-10 second cycle.
At the end of the cycle the module uses the systems of the ship to detonate a charge that will instantly deactivate the electronics systems of any ship within 30km.
Unfortunately, it has the negative effect of destroying the vessel to which it is attached.


So basically, any ship within 30km would have all of its modules deactived instantly.
Turrets, reps/boosters, resistances, webs, scrams, damps, painters.. If the module is active at the time of the explosion, it's deactived.

Now, the trick to this is that while the effectiveness of the modules are instantly deactived, the modules themselves cannot be reactivated until the end of what was their current cycle.

So, lets say you have a shield booster that boosts every 5 seconds, and you're 1 second into the cycle when the explosion goes off, then you 4 seconds until you can reactivate that module.


Now, much like any explosion there is a kill radius. In the case of this module it's not an actual kill, but any ship within 10-15km has a % chance of the explosion causing a short curcuit on any modules active during the explosion.
In the even that this happens, the module will be knocked offline.


What is the purpose of this module? You might ask.

Well, while it will cost you a ship, and possibly a pod if he gets caught, or is in a warp bubble, but the purpose would be breaking the blob.

This would be devastating to fleets that form tight blobs.


In other words, this would break fleets in ways that would suggest to them to develop more versatile fleets.

short, mid, and long range ships spread out so this module couldn't catch their entire fleet.

The t2 module would have a higher chance of knocking modules offline within the kill radius.


This would be a good module to fit on a suicide stealth bomber, however, with the 5-10 second cycle time it would be risky, because if the ship is destroyed before the module goes off, then it won't go off.

So, it might be a better idea to use a more tanky ship, or perhaps having a logi in rep range, but out of detonation range.


Now, i'm on the fence on whether this should be a null sec only module.
The reason why is because this module would be great at breaking low sec gate camps, but since it doesn't actually do damage should it be allowed in high sec?


I'm personally against using it in high sec because of the fact that it destroys the attached ship. The reason why is because some people would use out of corp alts fitted with this module in order to break their war target and i'm strongly against out of corp support during war decs.

Again though, this would be a great module for breaking blobs, including drake blobs, and perhaps if they're usable against capitals, then it could break them as well.


I like the idea that it would force fleets to have builds with more diversity in order to make these modules less detrimental.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-11-28 19:51:37 UTC
Erm, at the cost of one trivial newb ship or whatever detonated, all carriers and dreadnoughts in logi/siege mode become useless, sitting ducks for 5 whole minutes...?

Seems pretty absurdly imbalanced. And there are probably a lot of other major game breaking side effects like that, too.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-28 20:09:07 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Erm, at the cost of one trivial newb ship or whatever detonated, all carriers and dreadnoughts in logi/siege mode become useless, sitting ducks for 5 whole minutes...?

Seems pretty absurdly imbalanced. And there are probably a lot of other major game breaking side effects like that, too.



I would say that it shouldn't effect siege modules or anything like that.

However, the design of the module is meant to be game breaking.

It's specifically designed to break blobs and turn the tide of battle.

If you were to compare this to the old days of swords and shields, bombs would be like oil bombs launched from a trebuchet, where as this module would be like infected bodies over a castle wall.

It's designed to weaken your enemy against assault.

However, by bringing mixed fleets, your enemy can negate the advantage this module would have.

It would help keep any ship from becoming fotm.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#4 - 2012-11-28 20:29:48 UTC
It would enforce "the blob" just as well as it might break it.

Two scenarios:

1) 300 Spartans get a warpin on the 100 000 Persians, and they send in the suicide ship first. The suicide ship, being agile and a fast warper, gets in, blows up and disables the Persians. The Spartans, meanwhile, lands some 155 km off and starts duckhunting the Persians, and once in a while (Meaning every 30 seconds), one of them warps to the wreck and detonates himself, thus keeping the Persians very inefficient at anything.
The Spartans, due to keeping the 100 000 Persians in check and only sacrificing very cheap ships with this module fitted, wins the day with ease.

2) 100 000 Persians get a warpin on the 300 Spartans, and they send in the suicide ship first. The suicide ship, being agile and a fast warper, gets in, blows up and disables the Spartans. The Persians, meanwhile, lands some 155 km off and starts duckhunting the Spartans, and once in a while (Meaning every 30 seconds), one of them warps to the wreck and detonates himself, thus keeping the Spartans very inefficient at anything.
The Persians, due to the 300 Spartans being UTTERLY UNABLE to react before dying, lose everything and will never live to fight another day.


I don't think a module with these abilities is needed, and the effects you want it to have do not accord with the abilities you want it to have.

"Blobs" are, judging from EVE history, their own worst enemy. Let them do their thing.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#5 - 2012-11-28 20:41:05 UTC
Think of this idea as being in the same family as bombs or ECM bursts. Will a mixed fleet comp always save you from either of those? Are either of them preventing homogeneous fleets? No. This will fall into the same category. It would be a very nasty upgrade to an ECM burst, and god help you if you hit a friendly logistics pilot with it, but it's not the anti-blob.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2012-11-28 20:46:26 UTC
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-28 21:57:05 UTC
If you built a fleet composition with close mid and long range, then spread out you're less likely to get pwned by this.

So again, it breaks fotm blobs like drake blobs and suggest to the player to build a more versatile fleet.

That said, the module would have a cycle on it before detonation, so it is counterable.

You could potentially stick it on a heavily tanked ship, but since it only shuts down systems for a short period and since it only has a low chance of knocking modules offline within 15km, then it wouldn't be the ultimate pwn that you think it would be.

It's more of a short break in the enemies defences that would help if you're planning strategically.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#8 - 2012-11-28 22:32:46 UTC
You are working from two easily identifiable wrong assumptions:

1) Drake blobs are actually good
and
2) It would help disable the Drake blob

It will not be a suggestion to use more versatile fleets if the fleets work fine as long as you use these modules on your enemy before they get to use it on you. It will not help break up blobs any more than it will help reinforce them. It will not make any difference when deciding what fleet concepts to bring compared to the other factors.

To be absolutely clear, when suggesting something you should have 5 things ready to go, backed up with sound reasoning.
1: A problem, and why the problem is there, the nature of this problem etc.
2: Why existing mechanics cannot solve this.
3: How your suggestion would solve the problem.
4: How to ensure your problem-solver will not create new problems.
5: Why your solution is better than other solutions/letting the problem persist/other.

I'm so far not convinced that there is a problem with blobs (If "they" bring 5x the people then everything else equal, they actually deserve to win), and I can't see how your solution to that would solve anything, and worse yet I can see how it could create a multitude of problems for no perceived gain.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#9 - 2012-11-28 23:23:53 UTC
So you use a Shield booster, get you shield HP then get disrupted and cant activate it for 4 seconds, so you spam the button and get your hp with the beginning of the next cycle.
Oh god, that really seems a good thing to implement.

Would you please at least try to think about ideas like "New Modules" for mor than 5 minutes.

Armor Repair Ships would be really punished while shield just wouldn't care.
Every single weapon module wouldn't be affected, just tank related stuff and prop mods.

Triage and Siege Modules would interrupted would leave the ships useless for 5minutes, brilliant.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-28 23:36:47 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
So you use a Shield booster, get you shield HP then get disrupted and cant activate it for 4 seconds, so you spam the button and get your hp with the beginning of the next cycle.
Oh god, that really seems a good thing to implement.

Would you please at least try to think about ideas like "New Modules" for mor than 5 minutes.

Armor Repair Ships would be really punished while shield just wouldn't care.
Every single weapon module wouldn't be affected, just tank related stuff and prop mods.

Triage and Siege Modules would interrupted would leave the ships useless for 5minutes, brilliant.


They would also have their resists, ewar, damage, and basically any type of active modules would be shut off.

Also, if you're within 15km there's a chance modules might be offlined.

Also, triage and siege modules were already mentioned. Read up
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#11 - 2012-11-29 01:04:24 UTC
Offlining Modules? Bring in enough Noobships and offline an entire fleet, great. Seriously?

It would disrupt: "resists, ewar, damage, and basically any type of active modules"? Not really Einstein.

Damage applies at the beginning of a cycle. (except for rockets, but they'd still hit) Shield Boosting does the same.
Even ECM still jams you even if the module has been offlined. (Also Neuts drain cap at the beginning of their cycle)

Hardeners, Propulsion Jammers and Armor Rep Modules would cease to work. So all that would do is either give you a safe warpoff or make armortanking impossible.

Until now, your idea is terrible and you should feel bad for bringing it up.

if you want to introduce a "gamebreaking" mechanic work on your idea and think about more aspects than what you could make up in 5 minutes. It's not gamebreaking, it's broken.

Regards

My Condor costs less than that module!

Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
#12 - 2012-11-29 09:16:54 UTC
Well. Who said it could be fitted on newb ship? Maybe it will only fit on a battleship.

But then. I still don't think it's a good idea.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -  Arthur C. Clarke

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#13 - 2012-11-29 12:34:31 UTC
Tinukeda'ya Naskingar wrote:
Well. Who said it could be fitted on newb ship? Maybe it will only fit on a battleship.

But then. I still don't think it's a good idea.

Joe Risalo wrote:
Can be fitted on pretty much any ship.

So it's probably even more horribly unbalanced towards the "big bad blob".
You know, those who have plenty of ships to spare.

I can't see anything redeeming about this suggestion.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-29 14:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Joe Risalo wrote:
So, I had an idea for a module.


Electronic Dusruption Field Generator

Can be fitted on pretty much any ship.


When activating this module it begins a 5-10 second cycle.
At the end of the cycle the module uses the systems of the ship to detonate a charge that will instantly deactivate the electronics systems of any ship within 30km.
Unfortunately, it has the negative effect of destroying the vessel to which it is attached.





Theres a thing called lock breaker bomb which causes pretty much same effect. Except you dont need to suicide your bomber.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-11-29 15:43:40 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
So, I had an idea for a module.


Electronic Dusruption Field Generator

Can be fitted on pretty much any ship.


When activating this module it begins a 5-10 second cycle.
At the end of the cycle the module uses the systems of the ship to detonate a charge that will instantly deactivate the electronics systems of any ship within 30km.
Unfortunately, it has the negative effect of destroying the vessel to which it is attached.





Theres a thing called lock breaker bomb which causes pretty much same effect. Except you dont need to suicide your bomber.



ecm bursting scorpions as well. run right and a bit of luck they just warp in, pop a burst, gtfo and warp back in for more lolz. Or jsut stay there and burst till dead or enemy dead if lucky. Latter would give the suicidal effect when sniped to death if the op really wants that lol.



NOt seeing the point of this op. You suicide your ship for what?. Ecm and lockbreaker already covers guns and e-war (td.tp etc). What is the point of shutting down active resists. they already have shortish cycles. Unless you are finding 100 tards to suicide the blob fleet you took down the hardeners of 20 drakes for 5 seconds. Shame they still ahve the buffer tank to ride out the downtime. I know what it takes to 2-3 shot a drake in 5 seconds. Been there, several SR spec BS' on that lossmail. FC made a bad call...lots of BC's on support got a crap warp to call and diaf. No dinner, no kiss, no ky. I won't even touch coordinating staggering of the suicides so they die every 5 seconds with clocklike precision.)

your one suicide is taking away an active tank for mere seconds. You would need lots of suiciders to actually shut down a blob for a real amount of time. Most times...those suiciders would do them and their fleets more good being in actual combat fit ships and living as long as possible to shoot ships.

And where you would find these tards to pretend they are WWII japanese pilots I have no clue. You must hate noobs, this would be their role. I sure as hell do not see the older players in Hacs going yep...this is why I trained HAC 5, to rush in and blow up like an idiot. Most of these people if motivated to annoy a hostile fleet that much jsut train falcons.