Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Um, no. NBSI isn't a problem. If the alliances which owned space had actually lived there, instead of sending their isk-making alts to hisec, then you wouldn't be bitching about how local made it hard to catch ratters (i.e. "hurr local makes it too safe to live in null"), instead you'd be bitching about how difficult it was to run an incursion into that space and live.


Why? Why should we spend a lot of time, energy and ships to take over and build our own empire, and then let some random chucklefuck run through our systems with impunity just because that particular char hasn't been bad enough to go red yet?


I don't know how you play in hisec, but in hisec I ignore everyone else, and the only concession I make that there are any other players at all in hisec, is that I take care to not derp around with too valuable cargo. I don't even keep local visible, there's no point.


Yes, let's tell CCP, who can't code a standing system which survives session changes, titan bridges, jumpbridges, cynos etc to save their lives, to make that system even more complicated.

Great idea.

(Obviously the last line was sarcasm, Lord Zim never fails to poke in these chats)

I actually find it amusing that most null sec entities have an attitude, that basically says:
"We will kill anyone who is not us"
and then folks turn up later and ask why the place doesn't attract tourists more often.

I think it has to do with other pilots hearing banjos start playing, as they fly around space belonging to others.

If you want Null Sec to be a shooting gallery of doom, let's do it up right, and turn out the lights.

If you want more people in null, try shooting at them less.

Admit when you have conflicting goals, such as wanting more people so you can drive them off by shooting at them.

Um. Nullsec isn't supposed to be about tourists, it's about giving and receiving war, and building your own space empire. I've no idea why you're trying to imply nullsec should be some tourist area.

**** that noise.


No. The nullsec population problem has nothing to do with us "shooting them too much", and everything to do with nullsec not being good enough in effort/reward comparisons when compared to literally every other area of the game.


It is a conflicting goal, but it is not a goal you meet by making the area you want more people to move to suck more.

I mean, we can do that now just to shut people like you up, I don't think we'll notice much difference if we were to go from less than 1% of player activity in our space to even less than that. People who are proponents of this change, however, will, because they'll find even less people to try to gank, and they'll be back whining about something else. Probably how dscan is overpowered, or JBs are used by bots or whatever the next excuse will be.

JB are fine nurf titian bridging.

We want pilots who are in our coalition to be in our space. We want to keep people who are not in our coalition out. Thus starts the great circle of war.


I'm sure the dotbros are agreeing with you that the only way to fight in nullsec is to outblob the guy you're fighting 5:1.


You mean the blob warfare which is a necessity because CCP's idea of a sov system sucks literally all the bags of dicks on the way to the parking lot?

Right.


Of course I do. I'm not going to just go "well sure go right ahead and make it suck even more to live in nullsec, as long as we get roaming gangs of cloaked ships which can pretend to be doing guerilla warfare ... against empty space.

You want guerilla warfare? Make nullsec the preferred place to live and make isk for those pilots already PVPing there, add tons of little things which a roaming gang could, unless countered, wreck to be a nuisanse. That's how you fix the lack of guerilla warfare in today's nullsec, not make everyone move the few isk making alts they still have in nullsec out of nullsec so cloaked gangs can derp around and find ... nothing.


Tell me more about how sov is dependent on local.

Shockingly enough, I find this to be an appealing notion.

Specifically, the idea that sov holding should require a level of risk exposure for it's various aspects.
In the belts, there should be some kind of 'Ore Enhancer' to produce the rare ores, which in turn should be possible to destroy and sabotage ore production.
Same with ratting and mission running that have been enhanced by sov upgrading means. They should have isolated and vulnerable POCO-like structures that can be targeted by sneaky devils. This should be something a black ops group can do, in my opinion.


Sov being dependent on local? Absurd notion, in my opinion.

Local makes certain aspects of the game easy, in exchange for effectively blocking other parts of the game.
At most, sov holding would simply adapt. Whether this means they would consolidate or expand as a result, only time will tell.

Pardon my liberty at rearranging this for the sake of context.

Harping? That is hardly a fair description when the actual phrase expressed no certainty at all of such need.

When someone says "At most", such as in "At most, sov holding would simply adapt.", it suggests the need for adapting to be unlikely, and probably trivial in nature.


No local making something easy. I must point out that if the absence of local also enhances an opposed effort, it makes neither easy, simply changing the medium to require effort for intel on both parts.

Hunting for prey is not easier; it always presumed rapt attention to sensors and an idea of where to probably look for targets. With local, they knew someone was present to be found. Without it, they will search up to a point of diminishing returns. This point will probably be different from one pilot to the next, as some will search more than others.

Avoiding hunters is not easier; the PvE pilot was always intended to be alert for the presence of hostile players. Instead of the channel roster being the go-to tool, now they will have sensors and possibly more coordination with intel channels. With local, they knew the moment a potential hostile entered the system. Without it, they will be equally as blind as the hunter seeking them.

As to cloaking being easier... no. In many ways it makes it possible to perform in a more genuine sense.
It would also be reasonable to expect a means to hunt them the same as any other ship, by matching the level of effort, skill, and appropriate ships and fittings.

>>>>No local making something easy. I must point out that if the absence of local also enhances an opposed effort, it makes neither easy, simply changing the medium to require effort for intel on both parts.

To counter this, simply "Open map, look at where rats are killed", and avoid the systems. Relocating periodically in order to snowshoe your activity footprint may be advisable.

>>>>Hunting for prey is not easier; it always presumed rapt attention to sensors and an idea of where to probably look for targets. With local, they knew someone was present to be found. Without it, they will search up to a point of diminishing returns. This point will probably be different from one pilot to the next, as some will search more than others.

To counter this, simply "Open map, look at where rats are killed", and avoid the systems. Relocating periodically in order to snowshoe your activity footprint may be advisable.

>>>>Avoiding hunters is not easier; the PvE pilot was always intended to be alert for the presence of hostile players. Instead of the channel roster being the go-to tool, now they will have sensors and possibly more coordination with intel channels. With local, they knew the moment a potential hostile entered the system. Without it, they will be equally as blind as the hunter seeking them.

The only change to this is the part where both hunter and hunted become mutually aware of each other instantly, by seeing each other's names in the chat roster.
The hunter no longer knows if he can find a target in any given system, they just hope based on past activities.
The prey also can look at past activities, and predict where the hunters are most likely to go.

Effort can counter effort in each case, there is no "I WIN" button.
But, in each case where effort is needed, an opportunity to come up short is also created. A chance to make a mistake.
Will the hunter blow off the system because too few rats were listed on the map, and miss their dream target?
Will the prey be too absorbed shifting items to a can, and neglect a scan at the wrong time?
The game becomes more challenging when more effort is needed.

>>>>As to cloaking being easier... no. In many ways it makes it possible to perform in a more genuine sense.
It would also be reasonable to expect a means to hunt them the same as any other ship, by matching the level of effort, skill, and appropriate ships and fittings.

Just like you aren't likely to see many types of cap ships in high sec. How arbitrary can they get with these rules already?

Posting guards at ingress gates doesn't work for you?

Profitability mostly depends on a system's sov status, more than the security status, and if you have a cluster of high sovereignty systems it is expected that you have most of your defences there and not just a bunch of ratters hopping from anom to anom pretending they are in highsec.

Of course, if you expect people to actually stand watch in that way you might have to pay them explicitly for doing so. Opportunity cost of not anom hopping, after all.

Or just look at the effort required to stay semi-safe, and decide to go do L4s, farm FW or go to WHs instead.


Meh is worse effort/reward than l4s, FW or WHs, so yes, meh is bad.