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Mag's
Azn Empire
#81 - 2012-11-27 11:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Souisa wrote:
At least i dont do personal attacks and stick to the subject and ;)
Oh, really?

Souisa wrote:
You havent prooved anything other than being ********

Souisa wrote:
I really dont think you are smart enough......


Like I said, not a fan of the facts.
I would like you to point to a personal attack I made though.

Like Lord Zim said, costs have increased compared to a year ago.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#82 - 2012-11-27 11:23:22 UTC
You are a proffesional troll, i must admit

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#83 - 2012-11-27 11:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Souisa wrote:
You are a proffesional troll, i must admit
Being right and backing up what I say, doesn't make me a troll. But I do like the irony of your statement.

So as we know costs are more than a year ago, this makes the whole tier 3 Battlecruiser argument redundant.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-11-27 11:39:14 UTC
Souisa wrote:
At least i dont do personal attacks and stick to the subject and ;)

Souisa wrote:
You are a proffesional troll, i must admit

Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#85 - 2012-11-27 11:45:19 UTC
He actually did troll this point

Souisa wrote:
Haha, anyway it doesent change the fact that the current situation favors the gankers specifically because every freighter more or less have the excact same stats and concord has the excact same response time

o/
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-11-27 11:48:10 UTC
Souisa wrote:
He actually did troll this point

Souisa wrote:
Haha, anyway it doesent change the fact that the current situation favors the gankers specifically because every freighter more or less have the excact same stats and concord has the excact same response time


Actually, he hasn't even touched that post.

As for the "favors the gankers" bit:
Problem: freighter pilots carry sufficiently valuable cargo that they're profitable to gank
Solution: carry less valuable cargo pr run.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#87 - 2012-11-27 11:50:48 UTC
What is the maximum value you suggest carrying then?

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#88 - 2012-11-27 11:58:28 UTC
Souisa wrote:
He actually did troll this point

Souisa wrote:
Haha, anyway it doesent change the fact that the current situation favors the gankers specifically because every freighter more or less have the excact same stats and concord has the excact same response time

Did I? Can't seem to find that, could you point it out for me please.

Can you explain how the current situation, favours the gankers please. Seeing as all the most recent nerfs, have in fact gone again them.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-11-27 12:23:30 UTC
Souisa wrote:
What is the maximum value you suggest carrying then?


0.01 isk under the maximum value you are prepared to lose....

You know, like how everyone else has the standing advice/mandate of "don't fly what you cant afford to lose".

Whether it is cargo, or fitted pimp mods...the statement is valid.



The question of the validity of such thin choke points though....that's a different (and valid) debate. Still, I suppose there's the silver lining that you dont need to scout first to check what system they are in Blink
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#90 - 2012-11-27 12:24:41 UTC
Problem is CONCORD has a very slow response time in the area making ganking very "cost effective". Also freighters have no real way to tune their tank to surprise the gankers for example. Sure freighters can just carry less cargo, but how little should they carry? The ships costs around 1.5 billion so you would expect they will be able to carry at least this much without fear of ganks when hauling around high-sec

o/
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-11-27 12:33:50 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
He actually did troll this point

Souisa wrote:
Haha, anyway it doesent change the fact that the current situation favors the gankers specifically because every freighter more or less have the excact same stats and concord has the excact same response time

Did I? Can't seem to find that, could you point it out for me please.

Can you explain how the current situation, favours the gankers please. Seeing as all the most recent nerfs, have in fact gone again them.

They haven't added the new crimewatch system yet, and when that still doesn't help, it's time for removing aggression in its entirety.

Or, I guess they can cut the response time of concord by 25-75%, until freighters stop dying. Because heaven forbid hisec would have a modicum of risk to it. Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#92 - 2012-11-27 12:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
He actually did troll this point

Souisa wrote:
Haha, anyway it doesent change the fact that the current situation favors the gankers specifically because every freighter more or less have the excact same stats and concord has the excact same response time

Did I? Can't seem to find that, could you point it out for me please.

Can you explain how the current situation, favours the gankers please. Seeing as all the most recent nerfs, have in fact gone again them.

They haven't added the new crimewatch system yet, and when that still doesn't help, it's time for removing aggression in its entirety.

Or, I guess they can cut the response time of concord by 25-75%, until freighters stop dying. Because heaven forbid hisec would have a modicum of risk to it. Roll


Lets say Uedama was raised to a 0.6 or 0.7 freighters would still be gankable, and indeed they will be if they carry more than 2 or 3 billion worth of cargo

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#93 - 2012-11-27 13:33:59 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Can you explain how the current situation, favours the gankers please. Seeing as all the most recent nerfs, have in fact gone again them.

They haven't added the new crimewatch system yet, and when that still doesn't help, it's time for removing aggression in its entirety.

Or, I guess they can cut the response time of concord by 25-75%, until freighters stop dying. Because heaven forbid hisec would have a modicum of risk to it. Roll


Lets say Uedama was raised to a 0.6 or 0.7 freighters would still be gankable, and indeed they will be if they carry more than 2 or 3 billion worth of cargo
So that leads to the question, why does it need to be raised?
People already have options available, why can't they use them if this sec change will not stop the ganking there?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-11-27 14:04:47 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Lets say Uedama was raised to a 0.6 or 0.7 freighters would still be gankable, and indeed they will be if they carry more than 2 or 3 billion worth of cargo

And once they've had uedama increased to 0.6 or 0.7, and the ganking continues, they'll go "but daaaaaad, they're still being meanies, increase it further!". Then they'll get 0.8. Then 0.9. Then 1.0. And when the ganking still continues, "daaaaaaad! remove aggression or I QUIT!".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Sinn Moriarty
Black Market Industrial
#95 - 2012-11-27 17:52:34 UTC
I think your way off point. Noone said stop the ganking, as a Hauler ganking comes with the job. Just give us a chance or an option. Its all we asking for. Raising the sec status gives us a chance. Adding a gate gives us an option. As for an escort, most hauling corps dont have or don't use them in high sec, scouts and webbers, sure, but to defend a freighter from 6 gankers in under 5 sec you need a fleet of what 6 instalocking BC+ (could be wrong), most and I say most, hauling corps would consider this bad buisness as we are not PVP pilots and even still can only engage unless engaged. And to your credit, pirates and gankers are very adaptable and smart, you guys know more about game mechanics that most people i have met in this game. But we have no way, that i know of, to adapt to this particular problem, and still maintain the lifestyle we live.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2012-11-27 18:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Danika Princip
Sinn Moriarty wrote:
I think your way off point. Noone said stop the ganking, as a Hauler ganking comes with the job. Just give us a chance or an option. Its all we asking for. Raising the sec status gives us a chance. Adding a gate gives us an option. As for an escort, most hauling corps dont have or don't use them in high sec, scouts and webbers, sure, but to defend a freighter from 6 gankers in under 5 sec you need a fleet of what 6 instalocking BC+ (could be wrong), most and I say most, hauling corps would consider this bad buisness as we are not PVP pilots and even still can only engage unless engaged. And to your credit, pirates and gankers are very adaptable and smart, you guys know more about game mechanics that most people i have met in this game. But we have no way, that i know of, to adapt to this particular problem, and still maintain the lifestyle we live.



You have a chance. Take an escort, a webber, carry less valuable cargo, find alternate routes, logistics buddies, see what the new crimewatch does for you...

Just because you don't want to use them doesn't mean you don't have the tools.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#97 - 2012-11-27 18:57:37 UTC
not to tempt fate, but i travel through these systems quite often and have never been ganked. i'm often carrying ships and equip upto 600mil so why dont u try that as ur ceiling for 'how much can i carry before i get ganked?'.

Sinn Moriarty wrote:
I think your way off point. Noone said stop the ganking, as a Hauler ganking comes with the job. Just give us a chance or an option. Its all we asking for. Raising the sec status gives us a chance. Adding a gate gives us an option. As for an escort, most hauling corps dont have or don't use them in high sec, scouts and webbers, sure, but to defend a freighter from 6 gankers in under 5 sec you need a fleet of what 6 instalocking BC+ (could be wrong), most and I say most, hauling corps would consider this bad buisness as we are not PVP pilots and even still can only engage unless engaged. And to your credit, pirates and gankers are very adaptable and smart, you guys know more about game mechanics that most people i have met in this game. But we have no way, that i know of, to adapt to this particular problem, and still maintain the lifestyle we live.


ur options are logi support, scouts and escorts. black birds might make decent escorts because few gankers fit eccm and, if u get a successful jam off, the ganker is muted for 20 seconds (long enough for super happy concordokken time). u'll only have to jam one or two targets before they dnt have enough to break logi or even finish off the ship at all.

the lifestyle u have chosen (like many life styles in eve) forces u to adapt, work together and learn fast. if u cant keep up with that lifestyle; u should change lifestyle, or change game

missioning is very easy, pays ok, and can be done solo.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mag's
Azn Empire
#98 - 2012-11-27 20:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Sinn Moriarty wrote:
I think your way off point. Noone said stop the ganking, as a Hauler ganking comes with the job. Just give us a chance or an option. Its all we asking for. Raising the sec status gives us a chance. Adding a gate gives us an option. As for an escort, most hauling corps dont have or don't use them in high sec, scouts and webbers, sure, but to defend a freighter from 6 gankers in under 5 sec you need a fleet of what 6 instalocking BC+ (could be wrong), most and I say most, hauling corps would consider this bad buisness as we are not PVP pilots and even still can only engage unless engaged. And to your credit, pirates and gankers are very adaptable and smart, you guys know more about game mechanics that most people i have met in this game. But we have no way, that i know of, to adapt to this particular problem, and still maintain the lifestyle we live.
You already have options, but most simply refuse and/or can't be bothered to use them.

If you're not using the options available now, then you still won't use them if more gates are added and sec status of certain systems are raised. Then when ganks continue, you simply ask for more. Again ignoring the options available.

I'm afraid that Lord Zim hit the nail squarely on the head, when he said....
Lord Zim wrote:
And once they've had uedama increased to 0.6 or 0.7, and the ganking continues, they'll go "but daaaaaad, they're still being meanies, increase it further!". Then they'll get 0.8. Then 0.9. Then 1.0. And when the ganking still continues, "daaaaaaad! remove aggression or I QUIT!".

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#99 - 2012-11-27 23:38:41 UTC
would you please stop with the options?

There are NO other high-sec route from Jita to to other empire then Niarja or Uedama.

There are NO way to defend yourself once the gankers start attacking. they use drone and alpha strike, and you're down in 10 seconds.

There are NO way you can predict when a fleet will jump in, when a mach will start bumping, even if you have the best scout.

a freighter, once it start aligning, has no other choice then wait and pray in those system, even empty.

In Red Frog we use the webber technic a lot, but i'm not doing this for us, i'm doing it for the 1000 freighters that goes thru those system each day to make your life easier. (except maybe the troll in this post, I suspect some havn't undocked in years)

and to Lord Zim: No, we'll never ask to stop the ganking in high-sec. anyone stupid enough to haul 10b in plain sight in high-sec in any freighter deserve to be ganked. I just think the 2 main chokepoint shouldn't be .5 system.

there have been a lot of ganking in other system, including Jita and Perimeter, and you havn't seen us complain.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#100 - 2012-11-28 01:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
a logi can get reps on u before 10 seconds, especially when it jumps in first, locks u as soon as u decloak and orbits.

scimitars in particular, have quick lock times, and move at a decent speed for logi. and their reps land at the beginning of the cycle

black birds with a sebo can get lock on and set jams away within 10 seconds as well. just taking away one ganker will likely waste the whole effort.

tell ur customers that ur having to use more resources to move their assets safely, thus costs have gone up.

if they dnt like it, tell them they can haul their own crap.

and if there has been ganking in jita and perimeter as u say, then how are u planning to make things better by increasing the sec status of uedema?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs