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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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Borascus
#261 - 2012-11-25 22:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Captains Quarters still looks pretty good for video purposes.

As for whether or not CCP Games should be working on WiS - They've answered that, current market trends within the EVE-player base indicate that the majority of posters don't want other people to have WiS content.


It is now to be called The LiC - Locked in Closet.

I guess a lot of 30bil reward ships aren't really worth 30bil because the minerals involved in their production have nowhere near the time constraints as making a Titan.

Ofc they are, much as a Titan is worth $760 and a monocle is worth $70.


Killboards linked the market price to real world value based on how much PLEX sold for, if one PLEX sold for 20bil the titan would be worth $40 and the monocle 40bil, or a couple of cents at current market price.

It's like saying selling a character doesn't really cost $30 because the plex are bought from the market for isk.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#262 - 2012-11-25 23:25:43 UTC
Borascus wrote:
As for whether or not CCP Games should be working on WiS - They've answered that, current market trends within the EVE-player base indicate that the majority of posters don't want other people to have WiS content.


Firstly, the majority of posters arn't against WiS. Just read all the WiS related threads and tally up the for and against posting players.

Secondly, CCP have never said that there isn't a market for WiS. In fact, they have quite frequently said the opposite.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#263 - 2012-11-26 00:27:12 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.



So buy ships ,do some shooting ,kill or be killed ,be a pirate a miner or the military man sounds like EvE with joystick control

R.S.I2014
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#264 - 2012-11-26 00:41:13 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.



So buy ships ,do some shooting ,kill or be killed ,be a pirate a miner or the military man sounds like EvE with joystick control


A little bit yes, but only at the most basic level.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#265 - 2012-11-26 01:17:54 UTC
when dust is done with the big development crap maybe ccp could pull in an army of devs and give us more stuffs in eve like WiS
Oberine Noriepa
#266 - 2012-11-26 01:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
Mars Theran wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.



So buy ships ,do some shooting ,kill or be killed ,be a pirate a miner or the military man sounds like EvE with joystick control


A little bit yes, but only at the most basic level.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that Star Citizen will reach the player scale that EVE does on a regular basis. Not that I'm implying I'm not looking forward to playing Star Citizen. P

As for ambulation, I'm optimistic that CCP will return to it with a more solid vision all around once they finish revitalizing and polishing the spaceship side of things, which is a very much needed effort. DX11 implementation, I feel, will really boost the technological side of things as far as Carbon is concerned.

I'm surprised that Team Avatar's reassignment is coming as a shock to some people. Their reassignment was mentioned months ago. I don't really mind this since the work they're doing is great and immediately apparent in Retribution. I'm sure they'll be back on the ambulation side of things in due time.

∃
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#267 - 2012-11-26 02:27:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
...the carbon engine was always going to differ between the games to a certain extent anyway, the games differ so much in scope and model requirements that it was guaranteed.

When they were waxing lyrical about CARBON underpinning all of their games at the previous two fanfest, i think this is a rather major backpeddle, since the WHOLE POINT of carbon was that it would be the underpinnings of all their game creations.

So yes, having carbon different in each game totally removes the reason for creating it in the first place.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#268 - 2012-11-26 02:51:50 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.



So buy ships ,do some shooting ,kill or be killed ,be a pirate a miner or the military man sounds like EvE with joystick control


A little bit yes, but only at the most basic level.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that Star Citizen will reach the player scale that EVE does on a regular basis. Not that I'm implying I'm not looking forward to playing Star Citizen. P

As for ambulation, I'm optimistic that CCP will return to it with a more solid vision all around once they finish revitalizing and polishing the spaceship side of things, which is a very much needed effort. DX11 implementation, I feel, will really boost the technological side of things as far as Carbon is concerned.

I'm surprised that Team Avatar's reassignment is coming as a shock to some people. Their reassignment was mentioned months ago. I don't really mind this since the work they're doing is great and immediately apparent in Retribution. I'm sure they'll be back on the ambulation side of things in due time.



Raising 6.8 mil should remove any doubt on the the possible playerscale.
That is,if Mr Roberts deliver .


Show me where they mentioned their reassignment between the promise of making a blog about prototyping and their last thread with Unifex in it .

R.S.I2014
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#269 - 2012-11-26 03:20:33 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.



So buy ships ,do some shooting ,kill or be killed ,be a pirate a miner or the military man sounds like EvE with joystick control


A little bit yes, but only at the most basic level.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that Star Citizen will reach the player scale that EVE does on a regular basis. Not that I'm implying I'm not looking forward to playing Star Citizen. P

As for ambulation, I'm optimistic that CCP will return to it with a more solid vision all around once they finish revitalizing and polishing the spaceship side of things, which is a very much needed effort. DX11 implementation, I feel, will really boost the technological side of things as far as Carbon is concerned.

I'm surprised that Team Avatar's reassignment is coming as a shock to some people. Their reassignment was mentioned months ago. I don't really mind this since the work they're doing is great and immediately apparent in Retribution. I'm sure they'll be back on the ambulation side of things in due time.



Raising 6.8 mil should remove any doubt on the the possible playerscale.
That is,if Mr Roberts deliver .


Show me where they mentioned their reassignment between the promise of making a blog about prototyping and their last thread with Unifex in it .


Well, it's ~90K players making pledges, and some of those might be repeats depending on how he's counting and if he's keeping track. Anything between Kickstarter and his own site might run into a bit of confusion, but I'm not certain exactly how Kickstarter functions on the developer end.

At most, it is currently ~90K interested parties, (some very interested, with pledges of anywhere from 500-10K $ or more), and an average pledge of ~ $70 per person. I thought it was very interesting, watching that progression from around 4.2 million to about 6.2 million in around 2 days.

Quite an accomplishment, no matter how you look at it, and, no need to pay it back in the financial sense. That's an impressive amount of money for no return on the investment aside from early access to a game in 2-3 years, and alpha and beta access, plus maybe a few free items in game for some. Of course, the big backers get a little more. Be interesting to see what those exclusive ship blueprints are worth in 50 years.
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#270 - 2012-11-26 03:42:14 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
quotes



how many players had EvE in the first few weeks,any vet around that remembers ?

R.S.I2014
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2012-11-26 04:08:57 UTC
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#272 - 2012-11-26 05:48:33 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC


This...without the suicide.

Seeing WiS getting pushed further and further back is a little disheartening. Not just because it was a major selling point for me signing up in the first place, but because I truly would like to see Eve become a massive, multi-layered sandbox with more than justt spaceships. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the spaceships and the pewpew and all that, but I want to see the game continue to grow. Continue to be more than what was originally intended. Continue to innovate. Sue me.

STO came out with space and ground combat (FiS and WiS) from the very beginning and made both equally relevant to gameplay. Whether you like the game or not, Cryptic deserves some credit for trying and, in many ways, succeeding. I just refuse to believe, CCP isn't, at the very least, just as capable. I understand it would take a lot of resources and I'm not advocating taking resources away from made Eve popular in the first place. I'm just saying, I believe CCP is capable and doing it later rather than sooner probably isn't helping matters.

But whatever, we'll see. I do enjoy what Eve has to offer now, but I want more .
Ghazu
#273 - 2012-11-26 05:53:12 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

It truly makes me sad as a member of the community there are still individuals making suicide jokes like it's funny.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#274 - 2012-11-26 07:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Ghazu wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

It truly makes me sad as a member of the community there are still individuals making suicide jokes like it's funny.


I think he was talking about his character. What? ..not to say that I'd welcome that.
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#275 - 2012-11-26 07:15:02 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Show me where they mentioned their reassignment between the promise of making a blog about prototyping and their last thread with Unifex in it .


CCP Unifex wrote:
The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.


That was it, although he didn't really specify that the Avatar team no longer existed, so much as he specified they would be working on features for the Winter expansion. Clearly, that doesn't say the Avatar team no longer exists and isn't working on it. The first post regarding that was here, in this thread, afaik.

Now, I'm good with what is coming with Retribution, and I think they've done a fantastic job of pulling things together there, but while not expecting a lot of anything Avatar at this time, I hadn't thought they had submitted a proposal to the waste basket. Lol
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#276 - 2012-11-26 08:10:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Imo nobody in the thread noticed the unspoken news. Unspoken news that shed the light on the current CCP issues.

CCP has proven time and again to be exceedingly near objectives oriented. Their "6 months for an expansion" is also the implemented target for their plans.

If you study how they work, you'll have noticed how all the content created tends to be encased within its relevant expansion and then "forgotten": WHs, Sov, WiS, Incursions, PI... all the major features had their content delivered and then "sealed" (bar some nerfs / small bugfixes).

Problem is, some features require more than a "6 months tops and then forget about it" approach. They require a long term commitment and sensible post-release updates.

WiS is one of those features. If it was a CCP self challenge to prove they could beat their "6 months then forget it" record, CCP lost it.

Now, the future is rife with challenges, other companies will want to grab the tasty customers that CCP are letting down and those other companies don't have encumbering legacies to deal with, like: "spaghetti code", "senseless features" (POS / invention mechanics etc), "(bitter)vets" with their heavy demands. Those will be able to deliver possibly free to play, rich and modern content.

It takes NOTHING to create a game able to feature 40k concurrent players and thus able to replicate EvE's numbers so I would not be surprised to see future games intruding in CCP's niche stronger and stronger.

And what are CCP doing? A PS3 game.
Bug fixes and some aestethical adjustments.

A waste? No! It's much needed updates BUT the competition won't brake to wait while CCP takes 6 months to fix 6 timers and repaint 10 hulls. CCP has to perform the updates AND start delivering up-to date and competitive content ASAP.

See this expansion? See how the markets are doing? The label for it is: "lackluster".
The newbies who would benefit a lot from the small ships rebalance? Still knocked off the game before they even learn how to enjoy EvE!
The oldbies? Maybe if we had BC and BS updates, but ATM it's no shiny for them.
What's else in here? What was in here in the last expansion?

Can CCP go ahead like this, with the premise "we either bug fix OR deliver unpolished content we'll bug fix later"?
No, they should deliver fairly polished content AND bug fix the old. Because in time of crysis, competition gets nastier not simpler to fight and the other companies are certainly not going to wait for CCP to slowboat through 2005 features re-hashing.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#277 - 2012-11-26 14:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
^^

I think the CSM have been passing comments about CCPs 6 month release plans in the Development Strategy document. The trouble is CCP probably get alot out of "mini-releases". They kind of need to focus on one aspect of the game in order to use that as the header for the expansion, something they can shout to the rooftops about, something to base their expansion trailers around, and get the marketing machine into gear.

I'm not saying that its the right way to do things. I think CCP should really take a deaper look into whether these short sighted expansions are really worth what they get out of them in terms of marketing. I personally think that your right and that there needs to be a shift towards long term plan developement. I would be happy to have a two man team working on WiS features, that took them a year to get anything that is release worthy... at least they are still working on it. Frankly pulling everyone out of their usual niche to work on the latest craze is counter product in the long term.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2012-11-26 14:39:29 UTC
Baby ChuChu wrote:


Shocked where's your bra? how did you get to remove it? i need to know!
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#279 - 2012-11-26 15:03:30 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Baby ChuChu wrote:


Shocked where's your bra? how did you get to remove it? i need to know!


I'll tell you when the door opens hahaha
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#280 - 2012-11-26 16:09:50 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
^^

I think the CSM have been passing comments about CCPs 6 month release plans in the Development Strategy document. The trouble is CCP probably get alot out of "mini-releases". They kind of need to focus on one aspect of the game in order to use that as the header for the expansion, something they can shout to the rooftops about, something to base their expansion trailers around, and get the marketing machine into gear.


This is a policy they adopted after the Incarna debacle. For the first time CCP faild and lost tht trust of playerbase. Also they had the company focused on 3 (damn, THREE games development, 2 MMORPG and MMOFPS, not even Sony is able to do this).

So they felt in a scared apathy and started to downgrade the expansions to big patches with a cool video associated. If we sum together Crucible, Inferno and Retribution theese are not even close to be a traditional EvE expansion.

Just some example:

EXODUS: was structured in in three expansion and introduced:
- Whole new POS system and outpost
- Player alliances systems
- New capital ships
- dedspace areas
- COSMOS constelaltion
- New manifacturing and research gameplay
- A whole tier of new ships (23 new T2 ships)


REVELATIONS
- Exploration and probing system
- Contract system
- T2 Invention
- New BS and BC
- New deadspaces
- Rigs and boosters
- Integrated fleet system
- Integrated voice system

TRINITY
We're going to have in retribution new skins and model for stabber and tempest, this is so cool...
Well, Trinity, a single espansion rewrote the WHOLE graphic engine for ALL the ships in game. And also added 5 new classes... (no, not 5 new destroyes, 5 new CLASSES of ships for specific new roles

APOCRYPHA was considerated a "minor" expansion and released after only 3 months isntead of the ususal six months schedule. Not only introduced a whole new space type (and related player driven gameplay): whormhole, but also new NPC AI, new modular ship tier (T3 cruiser) to operate in wormholes, revamped esploration, new manifacturing and industry to support T3.

I'm not saying Crucible, Inferno and Retribution are bad, but they lack of vision and do not improve gameplay, are only big patches/mainteinance releases. New players used to WOW and so on don't see the differences and think that working for a strategic vision (like WiS) means do not fix bugs, they think to expansion in terms of "rebelancing paladins, nerfing warlock, fix the 20-men dungeon" and so on. But for a game like EvE is essential to provide to players the tools they need to create contents.