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Pulling the Plug on WiS

First post First post First post
Author
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#281 - 2012-11-26 16:56:53 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Just to answer a couple of points:

  • Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore. As per the thread linked earlier our prototype has been shelved for the time being. Please read both my post and the one from CCP Unifex for the full picture on what's happening with WIS development at the moment. The team members are off working on a whole bunch of stuff from the launcher, through to new game features.
  • WoD is definitely still in development and development is split off from EVE so that they can concentrate on their game and making it awesome.


So you say that Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore and that we should click your link to understand the full picture. However the link only shows what you were planning to do, and not why you shelved the plans or what is going to happen with them.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2012-11-26 17:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So you say that Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore and that we should click your link to understand the full picture. However the link only shows what you were planning to do, and not why you shelved the plans or what is going to happen with them.


Unifex does in the 2nd post in the thread. TL;DR part bolded/italicized.

CCP Unifex wrote:
Once this prototype was demoed and I had played it (being beaten by CCP Explorer and team in the process), then came the next part. Working out what would be needed to put this concept into the game for real. The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.

The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space.To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Nick Rich
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2012-11-26 17:48:52 UTC
First, that to understand what is happening to walking on stations, developers, it's time to open officially the topic, to learn the players exactly what they want, and based on this, what to do first.
Secondly, I play this game for a long time, and has also long been waiting for the door to open it. In a recent video was shot a new hangar, so why not start with that, that would be for one of the doors was an exit to the new hangar, and that there was an opportunity to invite friends there. The main thing to start. And for those who do the idea of ​​walking on stations do not like it, so very few of them do not want to - even if not playing.
Third, I am waiting for a long time when it happens, but my patience and the patience of many players can burst if they do not get what you promise a long time ago. I think it's time to give walking the stations, because the ships and space begin to pall. Personally, I play this game in order to see that it took so long waiting. But the constant promises of kickbacks and especially annoying. If walking the stations will not be, it is a chance to throw the game, as there is nothing new there.

Sorry for my english, but I do not use a translator, because I want to talk to you in the same language.

Norian Lonark
Black Thorne Corporation
#284 - 2012-11-26 17:51:38 UTC
Very interesting and thanks for posting the snippet of the reason the plug was pulled I also didn't see it.

Well all I can say is I really hope that Dust is worth it and is a massive success, maybe then EVE can get some additional resources allocated to it so we can see some meaningful avatar gameplay without waiting for another 7 years. Shocked

Start wide, expand further, and never look back

Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#285 - 2012-11-26 18:12:03 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
Very interesting and thanks for posting the snippet of the reason the plug was pulled I also didn't see it.

Well all I can say is I really hope that Dust is worth it and is a massive success, maybe then EVE can get some additional resources allocated to it so we can see some meaningful avatar gameplay without waiting for another 7 years. Shocked

Just for the record, it's been made clear by CCP quite a few times that the release of Dust514 only really marks its 'beginning', and certainly not its 'completion' - they have years worth of plans for expanding its scope.

So, if anyone's hoping that there'll be a sudden 'availability' of Devs for WiS once Dust comes out, I'd personally recommend shelving that hope. Assuming it doesn't crash and burn, then they'll be at it for years.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2012-11-26 18:44:26 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
well at least a good portion of our money went in to this failure called ambulation,something to be proud of

ugh they promised so much, as if our money wasn't be wasted. fffffff

Then they release it without a word to us on why what we got was so different than what was promised like 2 months beforehand

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2012-11-26 18:47:02 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

It truly makes me sad as a member of the community there are still individuals making suicide jokes like it's funny.


I think he was talking about his character. What? ..not to say that I'd welcome that.


Yes, I was referring to my character. My mistake, I had forgotten about the controversy pertaining to making general remarks like that.

Of course I should have expected someone to focus on it and totally bypass my main point which is still the same - It truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

Anyway, I stand corrected and will rephrase my closing remark - I think I'll just bio-vat my character now.


DMC
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2012-11-26 18:50:08 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
^^

I think the CSM have been passing comments about CCPs 6 month release plans in the Development Strategy document. The trouble is CCP probably get alot out of "mini-releases". They kind of need to focus on one aspect of the game in order to use that as the header for the expansion, something they can shout to the rooftops about, something to base their expansion trailers around, and get the marketing machine into gear.

I'm not saying that its the right way to do things. I think CCP should really take a deaper look into whether these short sighted expansions are really worth what they get out of them in terms of marketing. I personally think that your right and that there needs to be a shift towards long term plan developement. I would be happy to have a two man team working on WiS features, that took them a year to get anything that is release worthy... at least they are still working on it. Frankly pulling everyone out of their usual niche to work on the latest craze is counter product in the long term.


I want one year expansions, with a 6 month Double down patch. Where they release nothing but fixes and enchaments to the last expansion released.

So it would be like

Dec, Major expansion.
Summer, Huge patch to last expansion. Polish pass. no new features, all the devs would be working towards the next dec. The summer team would stay smaller, but we've seen what CCP can do with small teams. Plus a balance patch every 3 months or so isn't out the question with the new dev direction and tools.
repeat

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Borascus
#289 - 2012-11-26 18:52:30 UTC
It does illustrate, comprehensively, in this thread that the real question is:

Should CCP devote any resources to new content or fiddle with already existing features and mechanics to develop sideways.

For the upcoming expansion this has revolved around "pvp stagnation, bounties are borked = add bounty to char that logs off all time so bounty can never be claimed, and: we'll redesign by giving each ship a clearer role as part of the bigger *and definitely better* ship-of-the-line type definitions"

The new destroyers are welcome.
The new re-balances are welcome, but demanded.
The mining frigate adds involvement to the newbie experience or "reduced to an egg miner" - If a miner sells all ores/mins to buy a hulk which is suicide ganked almost instantly....
The bounty hunting system will be a whole new line, selling kill rights is a nice bit of inter-player gameplay and adds dimensions to the experience.

Dust-514 will tie in nicely after this expansion and THAT is not only record breaking content being added but all the orbital bombardment / contracts / ground battles / Dusters in local etc... will be BRAND NEW and awesome

There is more to this expansion - A CCP Eterne post in Fiction states that new fiction will be available for discussion "in two weeks".

Was CCP right to declare that a prototype partially developed and announced recently was shelved? in my opinion: not really - Too much stake is being offered to the forums. No offence to anyone but most players spend their time blowing up ships / rocks in game and judging by the number of posters tend to skim the forums.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2012-11-26 18:57:48 UTC
^^

how would you feel about these kinds of expansions 3 in a row, followed by a HUGE feature expansion once every 2 years?

Or a huge expanion once a year and the kind we've been getting on once a year so they are spread out more? To be fair eve really needed the last 3 expansions.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Ghazu
#291 - 2012-11-26 19:06:35 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

It truly makes me sad as a member of the community there are still individuals making suicide jokes like it's funny.


I think he was talking about his character. What? ..not to say that I'd welcome that.


Yes, I was referring to my character. My mistake, I had forgotten about the controversy pertaining to making general remarks like that.

Of course I should have expected someone to focus on it and totally bypass my main point which is still the same - It truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

Anyway, I stand corrected and will rephrase my closing remark - I think I'll just bio-vat my character now.


DMC

Please go right ahead towards Doomheim [666] or at least stay in the like and get liked cesspits you know mods moved it for good reason.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Borascus
#292 - 2012-11-26 19:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
MotherMoon wrote:
^^

how would you feel about these kinds of expansions 3 in a row, followed by a HUGE feature expansion once every 2 years?

Or a huge expanion once a year and the kind we've been getting on once a year so they are spread out more? To be fair eve really needed the last 3 expansions.



This one has depth, and a lot of sideways stuff. There is a brilliant EVE Youtube video showing how CCP Chronotis comments "It is a hot topic internally as the number of Drakes present in fleet fights is rising dramatically" (20th October 2010)

Not saying this is late or even well-deserved but it's inherent in groups to find the easiest solution to a problem and apply that solution in all situations, it's also why I stated in the "Where will EVE be in 10 years" thread that CCP Fozzie will win awards for balancing all ships in EVE to the Rock / Paper / Scissors format to equilibrium.

Otherwise some null-bears will threaten to pull their subs and that of any easily influenced belligerent undesirable pubbie that they can find.

As for content expansions - There were / are volumes for content that could have been stapled onto the end.


The huge expansion in 2 years philosophy will likely be unwelcome by people that enjoy content, as they will have limits to their experience until "their turn" which although allowing them to increase RL productivity will come at the cost of enjoyment of their hobby. Blowing up ships is blowing up ships whether or not people are all sat in a drake or abaddons (or now tengus) for example.

btw, do you have the killmail?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2012-11-26 20:30:40 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I have read this entire thread and gave out +1 LIKE to most of the replies that I agreed with.

As for the thread topic, it truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

I think I'll just suicide myself now.


Straight

DMC

It truly makes me sad as a member of the community there are still individuals making suicide jokes like it's funny.


I think he was talking about his character. What? ..not to say that I'd welcome that.


Yes, I was referring to my character. My mistake, I had forgotten about the controversy pertaining to making general remarks like that.

Of course I should have expected someone to focus on it and totally bypass my main point which is still the same - It truly makes me sad to see this news after being offline for 4 months.

Anyway, I stand corrected and will rephrase my closing remark - I think I'll just bio-vat my character now.


DMC

Please go right ahead towards Doomheim [666] or at least stay in the like and get liked cesspits you know mods moved it for good reason.


Don't know what your problem is and quite honestly, I don't really care.
For some reason you seem hellbent on being antagonistic. Considering the fact that your character is only 2 years old and unknown to me, I see no reason for you to have this bitter attitude, let alone try to provoke rage especially since you're nowhere near being a vet.

If you continue trying to start some sort of forum flame war with me, I will use the report option.

DMC
Ze'jira Penshar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2012-11-26 20:32:28 UTC
Welp. I don't know what else to say. CCP just keeps leaning more and more toward nut job psychos who just want to ruin people's fun. If that's what Eve is going towards, it's time to vote with my wallet.

-2 accounts. o/ CCP, see you never Roll
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#295 - 2012-11-26 20:36:00 UTC
Ze'jira Penshar wrote:
Welp. I don't know what else to say. CCP just keeps leaning more and more toward nut job psychos who just want to ruin people's fun. If that's what Eve is going towards, it's time to vote with my wallet.

-2 accounts. o/ CCP, see you never Roll

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...oh wait.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#296 - 2012-11-26 22:02:23 UTC
Ze'jira Penshar wrote:
Welp. I don't know what else to say. CCP just keeps leaning more and more toward nut job psychos who just want to ruin people's fun. If that's what Eve is going towards, it's time to vote with my wallet.

-2 accounts. o/ CCP, see you never Roll

So because there isn't any compelling reason to undock into an avatar at this point in time and there's no money to develop the brand new content that was in-and-out of development for seven years, "CCP just keeps leaning more and more toward nut job psychos who just want to ruin other people's fun?"

Did you happen to read anything about the design goals of Eve Online before you signed up? What about Eve Online's history? Can you think of another MMO with a history this rich? Probably not.

That history is courtesy of the original intended demographic, as evidenced by Eve's design philosophy.

Thanks, nut job psychopaths, for making Eve so much fun! Cool

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#297 - 2012-11-26 22:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Darth Gustav wrote:
Did you happen to read anything about the design goals of Eve Online before you signed up? What about Eve Online's history? Can you think of another MMO with a history this rich? Probably not.

That history is courtesy of the original intended demographic, as evidenced by Eve's design philosophy.


You mean the stories and rich history of scamming and ganking 'carebears'?

Whether you accept it or not, you need them more than they need you. They won't miss being ganked, but you'll miss ganking them.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Stegas Tyrano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2012-11-26 22:20:33 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.


It isn't really a matter of game genre, I think it's the fulfillment of what people desire. If Star Citizen can offer the same or even better sci-fi experience alot of high sec carebears are looking for (fun missions and some limited multiplayer) than we may lose alot of players when it is released.

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#299 - 2012-11-26 22:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
To compound my post above, imo we are being shoved too little content per year.

I mean, how many guys are actually required to modify a dozen of BPOs, to alter 100 or so database fields (containing the ships stats / slots) and similar? A whole team?

OK. Seems a bit excessive, but OK...




...But for SIX MONTHS? Dude where do I apply for this job?



Did CCP betray us again like they did for Emo Vamp MMO and put all the workforce onto developing DUST while we pay good money for OUR game? Because we were promised they would not, yet the math does not compute here.

And no, the inventory crud is irrelevant, nobody asked for it, it's a "under the hood" refactoring that should have not even been noticed by the players (we did notice, it sucked hard nuts for months...).


I understand the playerbase are meant to create content (and 0.0 is so stagnant we are getting trickles of sagas / drama etc).

But then, why do we pay a class A MMO monthly fee? For servers power and bugfixing?

It does not compute, sorry. GW2 are doing more, faster and for free.

Edit: since I got some in game nitpicking:

- "For free" does not mean they work for free but that players can get the content updates for free"
- I don't want to compare a large company with CCP, just the mindset and the business model. The former is updated, dynamic, progressive, the latter is a much smaller company yet more static and less ready to confront with the ever changing times.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#300 - 2012-11-26 23:32:00 UTC
Ah well, didn't want that avatar gameplay anyways.