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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-11-25 17:20:05 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I voted against WiS during the protest to poke a finger in the eye of the carebears that lobby for weak changes to Eve. Im glad to see I helped cause such angst. Have a cold cup of pee pee in your cheerios Mr. Spock.

When is WiS coming? Never.

*Nelson Laugh*


The protests weren't anti WiS, they were a lashback lead by people like me who wanted WiS, we trusted all of these light expansions would all lead up to something. We waited 2 years, through light expansions, 2 fanfests, showing us more and more of WiS! OMG BARS! you can see the ships! Oh man you can play that cool board game and bet stuff. I know that's light on features, but it was a going to be a huge 1st step.

And then after a demo 4 years ago and 3 years of waiting, A single , badly lit, minmatar only room comes out. It runs slow, it's ugly, like wait, we waited 2 years and this is what we get? BS, we wanted stations, stores. And all of the models were on the test server, I put up a bunch of screenshots of the bars.

But after all of that time they took from space, we were mad. Being lied to kinda pisses people off.

The WiS haters always hated WiS, but they never amounted to anything, untill all of the WiS lovers saw the minmatar room with a trash bag by the door. Like a trash bag CCP? seriously? going to make it that obvious?

I thinkthe stations look good now, and I'm glad it's been fixed and worked on by a SMALL team. I don't want grand promises at the expensive of FiS. BUT, once EVE gets all of the new ships, and all of the new effects and drone controls. I WANT walking in stations, not walking in a room.

Rumor is we'll get to met up with dustplayers face to face since that game will share the creator and CQs. Plus the plan to ad actully WiS combat is great. Honestly I'm happy They took a step back, I fear what they had planned sucked. And the fact that the door is shut might be a good thing.

But by god do I want the day to come when A dev blog is released saying the door is opening. I think leaving the unfinished feature in the game only confuses new players, so the sooner it means something, the better.



No, the reasons for the protest at its core was the release of the greed is good file and what everyone knew was coming with the store. WiS is dead. And its dead because for all the work theyll do to make that laggy crap work they still won't be able to make any money with it when they are done. The store for all intents and purposes has the reputation of the Black Plague and no serious number of EVE players are going to drop money on that crap.



another one who tries to speak for me

R.S.I2014
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-11-25 17:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I don't claim to speak for you and quoting that full page for 8 words is idiotic.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2012-11-25 17:58:42 UTC
All you need to know about WIS right here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2222700#post2222700
Seleene wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
also going to wait on news about the WiS prototype


There has already been news about this and it's not good. I can't look up the thread(s) atm, but the basics of it are that Incarna / WiS / Spacedolls / Interactive Environments, etc... are all [bold]on hold until CCP can figure out what the hell they want to do with the feature & what kind of game content is involved.[/bold]

This is not due to a lack of action by the CSM. In point of fact, myself and a few of the others have pointedly asked after what the heck is going on here. What has become clear though is that this isn't a matter of applying pressure or rioting - CCP just doesn't know what to do with this and until they do, we aren't going to see many updates or progress reports.

Don't shoot the messanger, that's just how it is. What?


WIS wasn't something released too early, poorly executed, etc. It never had a purpose beyond selling virtual Barbie doll accessories for cash. Why else would they be struggling to find any kind of purpose for it to even exist post-Incarna?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Ryhss
#244 - 2012-11-25 18:01:45 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Ryhss wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Ryhss wrote:

Yup, but the morons keep repeating themselves too.


Yea, I know.

OH! You meant someone other than yourself? I haven't seen any sorry.

All these people talk about is work on WiS. This whole thread is a repeat.


If you don't like the thread, post in another one. No one is forcing you to read it.

I never felt, or said I was forced. I just get pissed when I see people constantly posting about when CCP will finish WiS, these people are dumb and wasting thier time. CCP should fix everything that's broken fist. THEN move on to WiS.

Retribution looks to fix some of the broken stuff.

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#245 - 2012-11-25 18:11:42 UTC
I'm actually curious to know, from CCP, how many players stil have the Captain's Quarters turned on? At what point does a new player turn it off? I mean, once you figure out it's just the one room, do people still walk around in circles and... sit on the couch and stuff or what?

The moment CCP allowed me to turn it off, I've never turned it back on. Give me a reason to do so and I will.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#246 - 2012-11-25 18:16:58 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
All you need to know about WIS right here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2222700#post2222700
Seleene wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
also going to wait on news about the WiS prototype


There has already been news about this and it's not good. I can't look up the thread(s) atm, but the basics of it are that Incarna / WiS / Spacedolls / Interactive Environments, etc... are all [bold]on hold until CCP can figure out what the hell they want to do with the feature & what kind of game content is involved.[/bold]

This is not due to a lack of action by the CSM. In point of fact, myself and a few of the others have pointedly asked after what the heck is going on here. What has become clear though is that this isn't a matter of applying pressure or rioting - CCP just doesn't know what to do with this and until they do, we aren't going to see many updates or progress reports.

Don't shoot the messanger, that's just how it is. What?


WIS wasn't something released too early, poorly executed, etc. It never had a purpose beyond selling virtual Barbie doll accessories for cash. Why else would they be struggling to find any kind of purpose for it to even exist post-Incarna?


Oh, they had plenty of ~ideas~ for what it MIGHT be used for, but I agree that the initial roll out was a blatant cash grab with zero game play functionality. Had they not spent the better part of five years working on it (first demo was at FanFest in 2006) then folks might have been more willing to see what happened. Then again, with $20 in game t-shirts and $70 monocles, they shot themselves in the foot from the get go.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#247 - 2012-11-25 18:32:43 UTC
Seleene wrote:
I'm actually curious to know, from CCP, how many players stil have the Captain's Quarters turned on? At what point does a new player turn it off? I mean, once you figure out it's just the one room, do people still walk around in circles and... sit on the couch and stuff or what?

The moment CCP allowed me to turn it off, I've never turned it back on. Give me a reason to do so and I will.


There was a sort of semi-poll on the forums a little while ago asking this exact question. Obviously that's not very representative of the overall population, but the results showed half had it on and half had it off. The half that had it off only had it off because of performance issues.

I'll see if I can find the thread for you and I'll post it up as an edit of this post.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#248 - 2012-11-25 18:34:57 UTC
Seleene wrote:
[Then again, with $20 in game t-shirts and $70 monocles, they shot themselves in the foot from the get go.


We've had $7600 titans for years now and no one really cared.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#249 - 2012-11-25 18:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I have it turned off because in it's present form it serves no purpose, performance doesn't come into it.

I hope that some resources are reallocated to it, but only when when they've finished on the current course of fixes, reiteration, ui improvements etc. It has promise, but CCP rushing into it will only produce another expansion like incarna, if we want CCP to develop WiS content then CCP and ourselves are in it for the long term.

Bane Necran wrote:
Seleene wrote:
[Then again, with $20 in game t-shirts and $70 monocles, they shot themselves in the foot from the get go.


We've had $7600 titans for years now and no one really cared.


The difference there is that isk equivalent to $7600 doesn't magic up a Titan from nowhere, someone built it, someone else mined the ore etc, it has player involvement all the way from gathering the resources to the pilot boarding it, in the NEX store $70 of aurum equivalent magically produces an item that no player has had a part in producing, we're back to NPC sell orders for items of considerable value.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#250 - 2012-11-25 18:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Edit double post

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#251 - 2012-11-25 19:23:09 UTC
Seleene wrote:
I'm actually curious to know, from CCP, how many players stil have the Captain's Quarters turned on? At what point does a new player turn it off? I mean, once you figure out it's just the one room, do people still walk around in circles and... sit on the couch and stuff or what?

The moment CCP allowed me to turn it off, I've never turned it back on. Give me a reason to do so and I will.

It can be turned off completely?
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Ryhss
#252 - 2012-11-25 19:33:03 UTC
Seleene wrote:
I'm actually curious to know, from CCP, how many players stil have the Captain's Quarters turned on? At what point does a new player turn it off? I mean, once you figure out it's just the one room, do people still walk around in circles and... sit on the couch and stuff or what?

The moment CCP allowed me to turn it off, I've never turned it back on. Give me a reason to do so and I will.

My CQ is shut off

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#253 - 2012-11-25 19:55:19 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The difference there is that isk equivalent to $7600 doesn't magic up a Titan from nowhere, someone built it, someone else mined the ore etc, it has player involvement all the way from gathering the resources to the pilot boarding it, in the NEX store $70 of aurum equivalent magically produces an item that no player has had a part in producing, we're back to NPC sell orders for items of considerable value.


People can still spend that much RL cash on PLEX to buy a titan, so it's exactly the same. Everything in this game has a cash value attached to it, not just Nex items.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#254 - 2012-11-25 20:14:57 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:

People can still spend that much RL cash on PLEX to buy a titan, so it's exactly the same. Everything in this game has a cash value attached to it, not just Nex items.


Isn't the same. Even if you use rl cash to buy plex and to buy a titan then the titan is not a good created in game from nowhere. Someone had to mine, gather resources, set a production process, sell it. The gameplay chain is not bypassed and game content is created for the players involved in it.

Problem with NEX store is that simply inject goods in game from "nowhere", bypassing other players and any related gameplay.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#255 - 2012-11-25 20:24:02 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:

People can still spend that much RL cash on PLEX to buy a titan, so it's exactly the same. Everything in this game has a cash value attached to it, not just Nex items.


Isn't the same. Even if you use rl cash to buy plex and to buy a titan then the titan is not a good created in game from nowhere. Someone had to mine, gather resources, set a production process, sell it. The gameplay chain is not bypassed and game content is created for the players involved in it.

Problem with NEX store is that simply inject goods in game from "nowhere", bypassing other players and any related gameplay.



Solution use PI good to make clothes Lol

wumbo
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#256 - 2012-11-25 21:02:03 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:

People can still spend that much RL cash on PLEX to buy a titan, so it's exactly the same. Everything in this game has a cash value attached to it, not just Nex items.


Isn't the same. Even if you use rl cash to buy plex and to buy a titan then the titan is not a good created in game from nowhere. Someone had to mine, gather resources, set a production process, sell it. The gameplay chain is not bypassed and game content is created for the players involved in it.

Problem with NEX store is that simply inject goods in game from "nowhere", bypassing other players and any related gameplay.



Solution use PI good to make clothes Lol

The problem then becomes the absurdity of the market system itself, in regards to clothing - a single black t-shirt for example, costing more than a cruise missile, or small starship, etc.

Blueprints creating hundreds, or thousands of the item in a single 'run', (if they were actually destroyed with your pod) would go some way to helping - but really, that's digressing from the 'real' issues, and slipping into the murky waters of space-barbie troll fodder.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#257 - 2012-11-25 21:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Even if you use rl cash to buy plex and to buy a titan then the titan is not a good created in game from nowhere. Someone had to mine, gather resources, set a production process, sell it. The gameplay chain is not bypassed and game content is created for the players involved in it.


The reason i'm not accepting that is because it was never a problem people had with Nex items before, and if it were true people would also hate PLEX for the same reason. It has always been "OMG 60 dollar monocle!" to which i say you can buy any game item with RL cash, and everything has a cash value attached to it. But it's never long until someone goes "OMG 60 dollar monocle!" again.

I might start going around saying "OMG 7600 dollar titan! CCP is crazy to think we'll pay that". And whenever someone says i can also buy it with isk i'll ignore them and continue talking about 7600 dollar titans.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#258 - 2012-11-25 22:02:24 UTC
Seleene wrote:
I'm actually curious to know, from CCP, how many players stil have the Captain's Quarters turned on? At what point does a new player turn it off? I mean, once you figure out it's just the one room, do people still walk around in circles and... sit on the couch and stuff or what?

The moment CCP allowed me to turn it off, I've never turned it back on. Give me a reason to do so and I will.


I had it turned off on my previous PC due to performance issues - but now I've upgraded I use it as an alternative to spinning ships. Watching the video screen with random news items is pretty immersive. There's been plenty of excellent idea's to build upon that I'd like to see executed at some point, including ingame-advertizing screens (less containers in space/more RP propaganda/isk sink) before we step into multiplayer rooms. There's also plenty of way to include meaningful WiS features that can add to that side of EVE without forcing players into a different playstyle or mindset. Storefronts that can be bought like offices (with isk/lp/aur); station repairshop that's manned by capsuleers make them isk and default to NPC if not (at different cost vs instant repair or whatever to balance) and so on. But thats another thread.

That'll require quite a bit more work than the current expansions have shown though - so with EVE's current progression rate I dont think they'll ever get round to stuff like that. It took two and a half expansion to hammer out some bugs and smooth out some mechanics, and there's plenty of smoothing out to do still (pos + corp roles + null, and hoping that whatever Retribution brings sticks & fixes what it supposed to do.).
Stegas Tyrano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2012-11-25 22:15:45 UTC
Sooo...whens Star Citizen being released?

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#260 - 2012-11-25 22:27:20 UTC
Presumably in another 2 years or so, with alpha and beta expected ??

Star Citizen is a cool idea, but it's sort of like CoD in space with some added content and industry. It's a single player FPF with a number of missions and the option to play in a multi-player environment of about 100 systems at launch, with some exploration and an interactive market.

Beyond that, it's a shoot em' up game. Buy ships, run missions, do stuff, shoot stuff, and so on. How complex it is going to be remains to be seen, but with ~100 systems currently planned, and limited content in those systems, you can't expect it to be too much more than an open-ended extension of the single player model.
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