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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

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Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1161 - 2011-10-21 00:32:58 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Agreed... and something I've been saying myself.

What thoughts do you have regarding any searchability functions? Tough shat? or needs some element add even to simply know if there are any POCO's in the system in the first place and which planets they are on given the Remote Sensing skill we already have?

Imo since POCO's are tied to planets they absolutely should show, at least genericly, as a filter on the Planet tab in the MAP.

Thoughts?


OH yes, I agree that it would make sense to be able to find out remotely if there was already a CO in place, and what the tax rate would be. I think the justification of "I like the exploration aspect of going and finding out" is just lazy programmer-speak for "It would be pretty hard to implement". :)

I'm fluent in lazy programmer-speak :)


The side-issue is that if you can see where all the POCOs are, then you have a list of targets to destroy. Since they have no defenses (instead of being setup like a POS tower), being able to find them remotely so easily is going to put big target marks on them.

They *do* need to be visible in the S&I window, and searchable - but I feel that the ownership details need to be hidden, and possibly you are only allowed to see POCOs which you can currently use. That would require spying where you slip someone into the corp/alliance in order to find out where there POCOs are, or you slip into the system and use d-scan to figure out which planets have POCOs and go to them to see who owns what POCO.



While I respect your position, I STRONGLY disagree with this...

Primarily because, if ownership information even via direct "Show Info" click is absent, then you exclude the ability of a pilot to potentially seek membership in that corp to conduct their P.I.

Further, even generalizing POCO's from POCO's on advanced planets as being present in system - without numbers or locations is far better than not - And even if it provides a list of targets, then it only lends itself to increased player interaction.

But ultimately, I absolutely disagree with this as EVE has reached a point of complexity where such searchability lends itself to distilling player choice in how they spend their game time. I myself experience this when I might take a day or more just planning and taking steps towards an ingame action; to fly a significant distance just to find nothing is neither intelligent game design nor common sense. We have a Map search function for planets for a reason - or should we regress to scan probes on every planet and give up remote sensing?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1162 - 2011-10-21 00:41:18 UTC
Spanking Monkeys wrote:

ive already started reducing my manufaturing structures, decomissioning 2 large towers, the cost now is not made up by the speed increase of production. im now moving to an station where i can outbuild any of the local compertion and basicly save about 13mil/day on my production costs.


Which is something that I think CCP needs to address - currently, to run lab / manuf slots on a POS tower with prices in the 350M/mo range for a large tower, you're looking at a cost of 8000-9500 ISK/hr. Right now, if you have a 60-slot POS tower and are paying 500M ISK/mo, then you have to plan on spending 11,300 per hour on fuel per slot.

NPC slots? Manufacturing slots are 333 ISK/hr and research slots are down in the 1500-3000 ISK/hr range. In order for POS owners to be competitive, the NPCs need to raise their prices - especially for any slot where you pay less then 3000-4000 ISK/hr.

Even with the faster manufacturing / research times on a tower, it's really hard to compete. If the NPC costs were more like 4000-6000 ISK/hr with a 10000 ISK/hr install fee, then it would be more of an even keel.
Sauraah
Voracious Violence
#1163 - 2011-10-21 01:46:19 UTC
Via Shivon wrote:
this thread is full of tears *rofl*

this game is a MMO - MASSIVE Multiplayer Online game: You are NOT suppose to play ths game all allone...
You SHOULD interact with other ppl, join corps, join allys....
So stop ******* crying because you cant get rich anymore doing PI ALL ALLONE, having a POS ALL ALLONE, you are NOT suppose to...


This is easy for you to say since you are in one of the biggest alliances in EVE. Yes, EVE is an MMO and I totally enjoy hanging out with all my fellow EVE'ers in local. I've been in some large coporations/alliances and I'm taking some time off from that aspect and running my own small PVP corp.

Via Shivon wrote:
Just stop crying, be constructive like allot ppl are in this thread and eat what comes or do something different.

PI is not the main part of eve...


It's not the main part of EVE but it's a nice supplement to isk making for buying ships and mods to support PVP.

Okay, so here is some constructive comments. It has already been covered in the forums I'm sure but to re-iterate some of my key concerns:

1. Why will there only be one POCO per planet? A planet is a big place and to only have one POCO gives the biggest alliance in the area a monopoly locking out everyone that is not blue.

2. Did CCP Omen say that people do not like money anymore? I would argue that we like kill mails over money. If I was operating a POCO and was bored and some guy who I gave access to for a tax came into system with a hauler I would know exactly where he is and doing what and I would blow him up and tell him to get lost and collect many tears. I do have my own PI supplement.

3. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea altogether but it's CCP induced unfairness to smaller corps in favor of larger corps/alliances.

4. Without the low sec PI isk supplement or the reduced PI isk from doing high sec PI CCP is encouraging me to buy PLEX to pay for my ships/mods and that's not something I want to do.
Ryan27996
The United Negro College Fund
#1164 - 2011-10-21 01:50:54 UTC
Cool Feature would to be able to set a price for your allies (i.e Corp, Alliance, Blues) as well as neutrals and reds.
Meldan Anstian
The Night Crew
#1165 - 2011-10-21 01:55:00 UTC
Tas Nok wrote:
Arra Lith wrote:


(snip)

Suggestion

1) There is no CO at planet: Anyone can anchor and online Costoms Office Gantry.

2) Once placed and upgraded to Customs Office it goes active to use and invulnerable.

3) To attack CO attackers need to anchor and online their own CO Gantry. It can be attacked immediatelly, and time to online should be short (15-30 mins - just enough to alert defenders so they can organise fleet)

4) When attackers Gantry onlines defenders CO goes vulnerable and can be attacked.

5-a) If attackers CO gets destroyed defenders CO goes back to invulnerable mode.
5-b) If defenders CO gets to 25% shields it goes invulnerable, as well as attackers CO.

6) After reinforce ends and defenders lose their own CO attackers have option to upgrade it from Gantry to working CO (and collect isk from taxes) - it then goes invulnerable (going back to step 2);
or they can unanchor their structure, leaving planet without CO (going back to step 1).

--edit--
There still can be only one working CO at same time. If second Gantry is anchored it cannot be accessed from planet - its used only to make active Customs Office vulnerable, (ie by breaking energy link with planet that makes shield inpenetrable).


Kinda surprised this didn't get more attention since it seems like the best solution in this whole thread...

in HS nothing changes
in LS still need to bring along a gantry if you wanna blow them up
in null same but add a sov check (will be ignored in NPC space)
in WH operates the same as LS since there is no sov

(snip)



Given the goals of increasing player to player interaction and making PI taxable, the fundamental problem is making the taxation profitable enough to be worthwhile, without flipping the economy ass over heels. Any investment has to have a reasonable payback period, otherwise why bother with it or risk the investment since, with the CCP plan presented, the PCO is destroyable.

If the customs office costs 80 mil ISK to make, and takes months to recoop your costs, who would do it? You could invest 80 mil ISK in so many safer ways and have more income that a PCO. What's the incentive to attack it? The opportunity to invest 80mil ISK and wait months for a paybeck? Other than lols, I don't see it happening. PCO's would be something that just isn't used much by players and neither of the initial goals are met.

I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.

The above solution does not do all of those. It's simply a mechanic of installing and fighting over a PCO. It might be the part of a solution, but it's not enough as a whole solution.

At this point, I'm pretty firmly in the camp that having destructible PCO's just won't work the way they want it to. In the absence of numbers that players don't have access to (like how much income is possible from a various planets of various resource levels), making PCO's like outposts (conquerable but not destructible) makes the most sense to me.

If the average life span of a PCO is a month before it gets blown up, and it takes 2 months to earn the initial investment back, how long before people stop putting up PCO's?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1166 - 2011-10-21 02:03:22 UTC
Bodega Cat wrote:
Meldan Anstian wrote:
1. WH space - I don't see PI done in WH space with the intention of selling it on the market. It's used for POS fuel and manufacturing in the WH. PI goods made in WH's have no significant effect on the market. PITA to get a CO installed, but once done, business as usual, and no change to income.

2. Null sec - I think, don't know, that much of the PI in null space is intended for the use by the corps/alliances in null sec, also for POS fuel and manufacturing. Certainly more gets to the market than in WH, but I really question how significant it is. Gut feeling is that it's not real significant. I think it discourages ninja PI, since it's pretty much agreed that few would allow non blue to use a CO. It makes low sec more attractive than null sec, since you can't launch all you produce.

3. PCO's in low sec - very poor return on investment, especially given the risk of loss. They are not worth putting up, not worth attacking, and not worth defending if they were. Launch stuff from your command center, haul it to high sec and produce the higher tier stuff on a production planet. If you disagree about the return on investment, do the math.

4. High sec - basically unchanged. Tax rates are currently insignificant, and doubling them doesn't change that much, especially since it's pretty universally agreed that the PI prices will go up.


The stated goal of allowing getting income from CO taxation - don't see how the implementation as described achieves this goal, in any sec status system.

The stated goal of increasing player interaction - in WH and null, don't see much change here from the current system. In high sec, player interaction is irrelevant, I don't see the risk nor reward changing much in high sec. Low sec - since I don't see CO's being put up much, the player interaction goes down. You can't camp a CO that doesn't exist. Not that many people camp CO's currently, never seen a CO camp in months of doing PI. So I think player interaction is either unchanged or decreased depending on the sec status of the system.


I agree with you, its funny cause if theirs any goals here to have the efforts of the CO holder to see some monetization rewards in this as a landlord, they could only effectually ever be realized in high sec.

In fact, i would even go as far as saying they should allow CO's in high sec to have owners, but the tax rate always stays the same, just the sticker on the CO can be fought and won so someone gets to stick their hand in the cookie jar should they want to.

The problem with this feature only ever comes into play if you analyze the controls the CO owner can impose. Take the controls away and just have all CO's have a flat tax and this system might be win.



I disagree!!!!! since my corp lives in a WH and we take about 5Bi worth of electrolytes and precious metals to jita every month.
POCOs will be a new challenge to us now, since now we have to defend not only ower POS but also this POCOs...

Also for us it will be a new way tax the corp members... it will be a good tool for the industrial corps...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1167 - 2011-10-21 02:09:37 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:


Also for us it will be a new way tax the corp members... it will be a good tool for the industrial corps...


This is how Corporations become vested in Planetary Interface without them deploying colonies which would... well suck.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1168 - 2011-10-21 02:13:27 UTC
Quote:

Given the goals of increasing player to player interaction and making PI taxable, the fundamental problem is making the taxation profitable enough to be worthwhile, without flipping the economy ass over heels. Any investment has to have a reasonable payback period, otherwise why bother with it or risk the investment since, with the CCP plan presented, the PCO is destroyable.

If the customs office costs 80 mil ISK to make, and takes months to recoop your costs, who would do it? You could invest 80 mil ISK in so many safer ways and have more income that a PCO. What's the incentive to attack it? The opportunity to invest 80mil ISK and wait months for a paybeck? Other than lols, I don't see it happening. PCO's would be something that just isn't used much by players and neither of the initial goals are met.

I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.

The above solution does not do all of those. It's simply a mechanic of installing and fighting over a PCO. It might be the part of a solution, but it's not enough as a whole solution.

At this point, I'm pretty firmly in the camp that having destructible PCO's just won't work the way they want it to. In the absence of numbers that players don't have access to (like how much income is possible from a various planets of various resource levels), making PCO's like outposts (conquerable but not destructible) makes the most sense to me.

If the average life span of a PCO is a month before it gets blown up, and it takes 2 months to earn the initial investment back, how long before people stop putting up PCO's?


Good logic but flawed:
given that many folks in PI already have established networks on many planets they are going to want to continue to do so especially once prices spike high enough to warrant this additional investment

Recap of my post # 785
I spent 114 mil to get started in PI
I spent 65 mil to get re-started once the extractor head changes were made
I am looking at a total of roughly 560mil to get started a 3rd time once this happens

I can bear the costs if the prices go high enough, which under the current scheme they surely will



Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1169 - 2011-10-21 02:15:02 UTC
Meldan Anstian wrote:


I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.




Colony population and/or Commodity Refinement levels (Temperate planets will obviously generate greater tariff revenue than a Gas Planet will) will be the mechanism to generate worthwhile tariff revenue, not the tariff rate itself.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1170 - 2011-10-21 02:23:42 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Hundo Kay wrote:
I have scanned the topics, and I still have not seen any response to the question of what happens to the PI goodies stored inside when the POCO goes Boom.

Do we get a drop like everything else at 50/50 for each item batch, or nothing?

This single question will determine the long term survivability of the POCO.

If the drop rate is 0% then when the newness of ganking these things wears off, they should become more stable.

If on the otherhand, there is a drop potential, I can see a lot more people having an incentive to not only knock these things around like Loot Pinatas, but also to maintain a small PvP force around them for the 24+ hours of reinforcement.

We already know people can still get their stuff out before it pops, but will there be an incentive to maintain a force at the POCO while popping it?

So please CCP, fill us in on the details of what happens when these things go "POP".


No drop, the items are just destroyed.


Will POCOs gives us kill-mails? it will be shown on killboards? ( Depending on the answer people will hunt them for fun or not )

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Meldan Anstian
The Night Crew
#1171 - 2011-10-21 02:24:57 UTC
Via Shivon wrote:
this thread is full of tears *rofl*

this game is a MMO - MASSIVE Multiplayer Online game: You are NOT suppose to play ths game all allone...
You SHOULD interact with other ppl, join corps, join allys....
So stop ******* crying because you cant get rich anymore doing PI ALL ALLONE, having a POS ALL ALLONE, you are NOT suppose to...

Just stop PI then if its to complicatet, to expensive because of those LOLTAXES or JOIN A CORP OR ALLY ...
And nothing is wrong on big blobs...real life is full of big blobs : USA, RUSSIAN, EUROS....its normal

CCP has to fire ppl because of mistakes and PI in is actuall way its fail - SOOOO MUCH ******* AFK ISK coming in the game, every idiot can pay 3 acc with isk from PI... and CCP earns? what?


Just stop crying, be constructive like allot ppl are in this thread and eat what comes or do something different.

PI is not the main part of eve...


Going to post once on this as to not derail the thread that is otherwise pretty constructive in my opinion.

Massive doesn't mean big blobs of people doing the same thing. Massive means massive amounts of people playing at the same time. This would be why there are lots and lots of systems available in the Eve universe.

In a game like Eve, like in real life, it takes lots of different play styles and occupations working on different interests and goals to make the world go around. PI is one of those interests. The big blob you refer too, doesn't interest everyone.

For Eve (or any other game) to be healthy, it must attract a wide range of people, and not those just interested in blobs.

Nothing is wrong with blobs. There is also nothing wrong with small corps or even individual players enjoying the game. There are many activities in Eve that are required to be done for Eve to be Eve, that are not done well by a blob. They are much better done by small groups of people, even individuals. PI is one of those.

Also, since you seem to be confused about what Plexs are and how they work.... People buy plexs from CCP, with real money, not game money. They actually get more money from a plex than they get if someone pays them for game time directly. So lots of ISK coming into the game to buy plexs, is probably a good thing from CCP's perspective.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1172 - 2011-10-21 02:33:12 UTC
Tex Steele wrote:
So some of this is to go along with DUST 514. Interesting. I don't play DUST, don't have a game console, and never will. I play EVE Online. I don't care about DUST or anything to do with it. So why do I care? and why is CCP changing EVEOnline for something to do with DUST?

This seems like a move to push people into big alliances who can afford to run the things in 0.0 and defend them. Maybe a push to punish industrialists and push them to PVP, also. I have only been playing for about 15 months, and I can tell you that I have lost more ships in PVP and to gankers than I care to think about. IN a PVP world, the noobs are at a severe disadvantage to a toon that is 4 or 5 years old. His only chance of survival is either to join some mega corp or not play. I would happily do lots of industrial things which are an important part of the EVE universe - somebody must supply ammo and mods and POS fuel, after all. Because of the constant PVP crap happening, it is extremely difficult to play the game on one's own terms and not the ONE way CCP seems to desire everyone to play.

I do not like this change. I think it will simply cause more problems than it is worth.

IF CCP wants to fix PI, how about fixing that stupid PI ship that looks like a Noctis? It has a command center bay of 4000 m3, and will only hold command centers, which are 2500m3. That math doesn't work - it wastes 1500 m3 of space where nothing else can fit. The other bays are too small to use the ship for running planets in a production line, as well. That was a bust, and could be corrected to make the game a "better experience". I am a programmer in RL, and I see bugs all over the place that they could fix instead.

This change seems to favor only the big mega-alliances and punishes the little guy just trying to enjoy himself.


Yes, that noctis-like ship rely doesn't makes sense at all... if at last it had a 50000m³ space for PI products and command centers it would be useful.... until then i keep usin my Iteron III that does the job...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Meldan Anstian
The Night Crew
#1173 - 2011-10-21 02:37:11 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Meldan Anstian wrote:


I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.




Colony population and/or Commodity Refinement levels (Temperate planets will obviously generate greater tariff revenue than a Gas Planet will) will be the mechanism to generate worthwhile tariff revenue, not the tariff rate itself.


Hmm, not sure what you are trying to say here.

Certainly agree that different planets will generate different levels of income based on the resources of that planet.

How much resources being pulled off the planet is the tax base. How much income is generated from the tax base is a function of the tax rate, which is a percentage of the tariff. A high tax rate would cause people to use another planet or use launches to minimize the costs.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1174 - 2011-10-21 02:48:01 UTC
Tas Nok wrote:


Recap of my post # 785
I spent 114 mil to get started in PI
I spent 65 mil to get re-started once the extractor head changes were made
I am looking at a total of roughly 560mil to get started a 3rd time once this happens

I can bear the costs if the prices go high enough, which under the current scheme they surely will


If you think that spending 114M or 65M is a lot - since even hi-sec PI harvest planets pay off within 2 weeks, then I don't know what you're doing with all of that ISK. Hi-sec PI harvest planets reliably generate 18-24M ISK per month (per planet).

As for the complaint about the 560M for the 3rd time around - get a few other people together and split the costs.
Iakim Akrelthor
Skipper Logistics
#1175 - 2011-10-21 03:20:51 UTC
What will happen to my spaceports?
Will they dissappear?
I currently use them as my primary storage, as actual storage buildings have too little space.

If they do, will the stuff inside it teleport to a station?
Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1176 - 2011-10-21 03:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeronic
"Oh and one more thing, we have increased the bandwidth on all planetary links by a factor of five! Get those materials flowing!"
Source: CCP Omen, on behalf of Team Pi


I look at that on WHY, One they have never done think kind of adjustment to anything else in-game. Quick example is the Survey Scanner, Max Distance on a T2 is 22.5k, an Orca running links can out distance that easy, Rorqual even farther. Did they ever make an adjustment to those when the ships came out. I think the refocus on Eve Online need to be a re-polishing of the game. Start with the biggest things first and stop with this new content that hurts the market. Alliance and Corporation Menus and Roles and Player Own Stations are the two biggest things that need to be fix. I'm not even going to get in to Drones, that need a complete code rebuild.
Marsan
#1177 - 2011-10-21 04:40:32 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:

You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? Question On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.


Omen if you'd ever spent time in w-space with a WH corp you'd know that the policy of even indy corps is to push out anyone who isn't an ally from your wormhole. The best you can expect from a WH corp is for them to show you the door or let you transit.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1178 - 2011-10-21 04:56:44 UTC
Iakim Akrelthor wrote:
What will happen to my spaceports?
Will they dissappear?
I currently use them as my primary storage, as actual storage buildings have too little space.

If they do, will the stuff inside it teleport to a station?


Material stored in the Custom's Office will be ported to a station location - Spaceports are not affected by this feature in any way.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1179 - 2011-10-21 05:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Meldan Anstian wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Meldan Anstian wrote:


I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.




Colony population and/or Commodity Refinement levels (Temperate planets will obviously generate greater tariff revenue than a Gas Planet will) will be the mechanism to generate worthwhile tariff revenue, not the tariff rate itself.


Hmm, not sure what you are trying to say here.

Certainly agree that different planets will generate different levels of income based on the resources of that planet.

How much resources being pulled off the planet is the tax base. How much income is generated from the tax base is a function of the tax rate, which is a percentage of the tariff. A high tax rate would cause people to use another planet or use launches to minimize the costs.


I was attempting to refocus away from the tarif percentage, and instead on the important factors:

First, processing commodities to higher levels will result in higher tariff revenues.

The second point was that the more colonies you have on planet, the greater quantity and frequency of export.

It is these two things that will generate a viable income from POCO's.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1180 - 2011-10-21 05:23:17 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

While I respect your position, I STRONGLY disagree with this...

Primarily because, if ownership information even via direct "Show Info" click is absent, then you exclude the ability of a pilot to potentially seek membership in that corp to conduct their P.I.

Further, even generalizing POCO's from POCO's on advanced planets as being present in system - without numbers or locations is far better than not - And even if it provides a list of targets, then it only lends itself to increased player interaction.

But ultimately, I absolutely disagree with this as EVE has reached a point of complexity where such searchability lends itself to distilling player choice in how they spend their game time. I myself experience this when I might take a day or more just planning and taking steps towards an ingame action; to fly a significant distance just to find nothing is neither intelligent game design nor common sense. We have a Map search function for planets for a reason - or should we regress to scan probes on every planet and give up remote sensing?



Fair enough. The issue is more of one where I see POCOs as equivalent to POS assets, which are not listed on the map and which you cannot know the location of unless you have someone in the corporation tell you where POS towers are located. One of the reasons why POS towers survive sometimes is because nobody is motivated enough to scan down every tower in the system. The other reason that POS towers survive is because they can anchor defenses.

With POCOs being easily searched for using the S&I window (assuming that makes it into production), they have neither the anonymity of POS towers on d-scan nor the defenses of a POS tower to fall back on to keep griefers at bay.

Ultimately, I think the solution to the dilemma is going to be that they need to come in multiple sizes (a 20M version, 40M version, and a 80M version) with the same PG/CPU as S/M/L POS towers with some restrictions about what can be anchored around them. Otherwise, they're going to have the lifespan of a flea in lo-sec (even if they don't drop anything, the fact that griefers can easily kill them is going to be incentive enough).

Maybe restrict them so that they cannot anchor any offensive weapons (only ECM, Sensor Damps, Webs and Hardeners).