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Blackholes

Author
Desmond Strickler
#1 - 2012-11-22 03:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Desmond Strickler
Well this game is based in space, so I see no reason not to add blackholes. Now I know we can't just have random blackholes popping up in Jita and Diodixe every week (but imagine the terror Twisted ). We also can't have it in null and low since we there will probably be alliances that whine that their POS with their 12 titans got destroyed in a blackhole.

There is one place though that might possible be able to house one...wormhole space. Now hear me out, blackholes will have to be scanned down in WH space just how WH are scanned down in normal space. Blackholes will be very very very rare to find and only can be found in WH space, blackholes will be able to destroy anything and everything in its way (planets and moons not included).

The most best part about blackholes are the gas clouds left behind.Not only will these gas clouds be in abundance, but rare. Now I don't know what these gas clouds are made of, I just know they are very rare. I really don't know what to think about the idea, it just seems like it would fit in a space game lol

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Minty Moon
#2 - 2012-11-22 04:13:59 UTC
Black holes come from the destruction of stars right?

I mean I like new content, but having black holes pop in and out of existence randomly destroying things seems a bit more annoying rather than chaotic.

Also wouldn't a black hole suck in your probes? :p

Though on blackholes, I wouldn't mind seeing CCP announcing maybe some stars were going to supernova and wipe out chunks of space or massive parts of nullsec and we had 6 months to get the F out and then after the Eve Gate was fixed and reopened, connecting us to our ancestors and waging a whole new war to take over their systems....and i think i got a bit carried away :3


Maybe blackholes could pop up and destroy systems creating "dead" systems that can be mined out for new material (im assuming thats what you're getting at from "whats left over")

I wouldn't mind seeing a black hole form even as just a tourist attraction, but having them pop in and out of existence traveling destroying things just doesnt seem right
Desmond Strickler
#3 - 2012-11-22 04:26:18 UTC
Yea, I guess black holes would need some form of "reality" towards it. Although I don't think most people would be too fond of their system blowing up lol. Now a there is a black hole in the center of galaxy, so if some really big systems have a black hole in the center just as a tourist attraction that'd be cool. This was just an idea off the top of my head, just to get some good ideas floating around.

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Minty Moon
#4 - 2012-11-22 04:36:34 UTC
Nothing wrong with floating ideas around. And I know as an explorer i've personally curiously flown around to see shattered planets, the EvE gate and other tourist attractions around New Eden. So even if it just ends as a novelty it'd be fun to brave the dangerous reaches of space just to poke my head in and say ya i've been their. Just something to do on those nights you don't feel like doing work

I'm actually surprised at the amount of people I find that havent even made the trek to at least see the EvE gate
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#5 - 2012-11-22 04:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Green
There's a reason they aren't in K-Space, people don't tend to settle where there are imminent dangers are. People (NPCs) therefore did not settle in W-space due to the danger, that only a capsuleer would be brave enough or stupid enough to undertake.

wumbo

Luc Chastot
#6 - 2012-11-22 04:40:31 UTC
A small blackhole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size blackhole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that blackholes don't expell matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that whiteholes exist, and that they connect to blackholes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Desmond Strickler
#7 - 2012-11-22 04:47:28 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Blackholes have existed in W-space since... well W-space


Ok, you got me there but ship effects are boring. I feel like for such an awesome creation it should get much more respect and power than it does. Last time I checked, no one was destroyed by a black hole :P

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#8 - 2012-11-22 04:51:25 UTC
Desmond Strickler wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Blackholes have existed in W-space since... well W-space


Ok, you got me there but ship effects are boring. I feel like for such an awesome creation it should get much more respect and power than it does. Last time I checked, no one was destroyed by a black hole :P


Well if it was that close, noone would go into blackhole systems, and they would remove the effect Sad. In theory it sounds cool, i just don't think that it will work very well in practice, as you'd have to balance all other effects respectively.

Ex. blackhole system: shiiiiiii....
Ex. binary star system: oh no.....a binary star system......and look....over there......two stars......binary-ing........

wumbo

Desmond Strickler
#9 - 2012-11-22 04:55:37 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small black hole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size black hole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that black holes don't expel matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that white holes exist, and that they connect to black holes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Well for one, when a black hole is filled it just stops "eating" and it catches the remaining matter in its gravitational force. Said matter is then whirled around the black hole. Seeing that the enter of OUR galaxy is just a really big black hole that is dormant this seems like the most plausible idea. And that 2 hour special on the discovery channel was watched many times over by me.

You got me beat on white holes though, from what I read they are black holes but instead of "destroying" matter they send it to another place in space (kind of like worm holes)

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Desmond Strickler
#10 - 2012-11-22 04:56:47 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Desmond Strickler wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Blackholes have existed in W-space since... well W-space


Ok, you got me there but ship effects are boring. I feel like for such an awesome creation it should get much more respect and power than it does. Last time I checked, no one was destroyed by a black hole :P


Well if it was that close, noone would go into blackhole systems, and they would remove the effect Sad. In theory it sounds cool, i just don't think that it will work very well in practice, as you'd have to balance all other effects respectively.

Ex. blackhole system: shiiiiiii....
Ex. binary star system: oh no.....a binary star system......and look....over there......two stars......binary-ing........


I guess it wouldn't really affect the player, just spawn really cool stuff like...Jovians Shocked

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Luc Chastot
#11 - 2012-11-22 07:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Luc Chastot
Desmond Strickler wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small black hole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size black hole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that black holes don't expel matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that white holes exist, and that they connect to black holes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Well for one, when a black hole is filled it just stops "eating" and it catches the remaining matter in its gravitational force. Said matter is then whirled around the black hole. Seeing that the enter of OUR galaxy is just a really big black hole that is dormant this seems like the most plausible idea. And that 2 hour special on the discovery channel was watched many times over by me.

You got me beat on white holes though, from what I read they are black holes but instead of "destroying" matter they send it to another place in space (kind of like worm holes)


Gravity is absolute (err, kind of), so there's no such thing as a black hole that "stops eating". Black holes live forever as long as the rate of emanated radiation is lower than the light and mass they are swallowing, which means that very small black holes live very short lives and viceversa.

The center of the Milky Way is not a dormant black hole, because such a thing is impossible in both theory and reality; it is, in fact, an ABSURDLY MASSIVE monster that is eating up stars at a rate you couldn't imagine. Did I say it is MASSIVE? Because that's a vulgar understatement.

We don't really know for sure what happens to matter when it is eaten by such phenomena (we kind of know, but there's no way to prove it yet); it could very well be transformed into energy (a couple of cities in Japan know what happens when you do this at a "pefect" ratio, they can attest to its non-prettyness), but then what happens to that energy? It's not like these objects irradiate (a lot of) stuff. These gaps in knowledge are what lead some scientists to believe it is somehow (there's math for this, but I both don't understand it fully and know people would just skip it) transported through spacetime somewhere else in our universe (or possibly other universes) and ejected from an object whose nature is opposite (not exactly, but let's assume that for the sake of simplicity) than that of black holes (hence the name).

There's another kind of black hole, but we shall leave the human anatomy conversation for later.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#12 - 2012-11-22 09:07:14 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small blackhole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size blackhole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that blackholes don't expell matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that whiteholes exist, and that they connect to blackholes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Some black holes while devouring galaxy's eject matter that accelerates so fast it misses the black hole and gets shot out the poles, there's a really awesome picture of one some where, while devouring one galaxy its building a whole new galaxy out of the ejected matter millions of light years away.

http://www.cosmotography.com/images/supermassive_blackholes_drive_galaxy_evolution_2.html
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#13 - 2012-11-22 09:16:58 UTC
Supernovas on average happen once every 100 years or so per galaxy, our galexys sorta overdue for its next one,
Its an easy event to spot after the events started as the supernova will emit more light than the rest of the galaxy combined.

It is how ever a short lived event lasting typically days or a few weeks untill its done an dusted.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/05/-30-supernovas-per-second-in-the-observable-universe-creators-of-life-death.html


Jessy Berbers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-22 09:38:36 UTC
Hmm interesting topic, but what about if instead of having them indeed randomly popup, what if some wormholes would lead into black hole systems, and as soon as go through the hole, you're in bad luck, and get sucked in, or maybe...not directly sucked in, but it being a gamble really some holes leading to these systems we already know.

but others leading to these blackhole systems, which are just hostile.

push a carrier through the hole, or something else big enough it wil have trouble going back.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-11-22 09:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Reminds me of something in game called the "Terminus Stream"

very few people have heard of it because their was only one and you had to find it with probes.

It was in the Vuorassi system, a cosmic signature that had a single object in it that looked like a wormhole. The description had something about it shooting matter into space, but what was cool about it was that if you got within 20km of it you took about 6k dps. Was great to ask people to help me with my mission and warp a tengu into it, and tractor the wreck out.

It has been removed since then. Used to be a memorial can for it to.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#16 - 2012-11-22 12:38:23 UTC
Desmond Strickler wrote:
Well this game is based in space, so I see no reason not to add blackholes. Now I know we can't just have random blackholes popping up in Jita and Diodixe every week (but imagine the terror Twisted ). We also can't have it in null and low since we there will probably be alliances that whine that their POS with their 12 titans got destroyed in a blackhole.

There is one place though that might possible be able to house one...wormhole space. Now hear me out, blackholes will have to be scanned down in WH space just how WH are scanned down in normal space. Blackholes will be very very very rare to find and only can be found in WH space, blackholes will be able to destroy anything and everything in its way (planets and moons not included).

The most best part about blackholes are the gas clouds left behind.Not only will these gas clouds be in abundance, but rare. Now I don't know what these gas clouds are made of, I just know they are very rare. I really don't know what to think about the idea, it just seems like it would fit in a space game lol


Black holes can be found inside wormholes. It's in the game already.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.

Luc Chastot
#17 - 2012-11-22 16:57:23 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small blackhole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size blackhole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that blackholes don't expell matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that whiteholes exist, and that they connect to blackholes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Some black holes while devouring galaxy's eject matter that accelerates so fast it misses the black hole and gets shot out the poles, there's a really awesome picture of one some where, while devouring one galaxy its building a whole new galaxy out of the ejected matter millions of light years away.

http://www.cosmotography.com/images/supermassive_blackholes_drive_galaxy_evolution_2.html


Errr, did you have any purpose for repeating what I said? By "picture" you mean "simulation", right? Because there are not many photos of black holes, and the ones we have are not particularly (visually) awesome.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/568000/568280.grid-6x2.jpg

Also, regarding the "dormant" black holes (not from your post), the word means they are not receiving matter not because their gravitational pull has stopped, but because there's no matter nearby.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Desmond Strickler
#18 - 2012-11-22 20:03:17 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small blackhole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size blackhole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that blackholes don't expell matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that whiteholes exist, and that they connect to blackholes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Some black holes while devouring galaxy's eject matter that accelerates so fast it misses the black hole and gets shot out the poles, there's a really awesome picture of one some where, while devouring one galaxy its building a whole new galaxy out of the ejected matter millions of light years away.

http://www.cosmotography.com/images/supermassive_blackholes_drive_galaxy_evolution_2.html


Errr, did you have any purpose for repeating what I said? By "picture" you mean "simulation", right? Because there are not many photos of black holes, and the ones we have are not particularly (visually) awesome.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/568000/568280.grid-6x2.jpg

Also, regarding the "dormant" black holes (not from your post), the word means they are not receiving matter not because their gravitational pull has stopped, but because there's no matter nearby.



http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/07/30/where-do-supermassive-black-holes-come-from/


Just skim in a few paragraphs and the author himself says that black holes can become dormant. If you don't think the author can be credited, check here: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/author/esiegel/

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]

Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-11-22 20:26:15 UTC
WH space is already dangerous enough without something randomly wiping out everything in the system. Random destruction is crappy and just... sucks really.

If you really want to go in this direction then, rather than random destruction you make a new type of wormhole system (rename the existing black hole systems to something else) that has some cool looking characteristic:

A blackhole instead of a star
Instead of planets we have a cool set of giant asteroids, exo-planets and similar, which act like moons for the purpose of gameplay.
All the stellar bodies are on spiral orbits that eventually take them into the blackhole.
Every day at downtime, things move a notch further towards destruction, eventually getting eaten, and a new body spawned. Each body has say a 14 day life cycle.
You can anchor things at one of these pseudo-moons, but if they are there when the moon vanishes, they vanish with it.
The upside is that the closer the moon-thing gets to the blackhole, the less fuel it uses (because time slows down).
We introduce a new POS module (call it a Gravitic Power Converter or something) that provides a boost to the cycle times on all industrial processes that increases the closer to the event horizon it is. The first seven days, you get 50% improvement, then five days gets you 100%, then for the last two days you get 200%, or something like that.

The idea is that the system is constantly moving, and there's some cool upsides for people who put in the effort to move their towers and such frequently.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#20 - 2012-11-23 02:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Luc Chastot wrote:
Desmond Strickler wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
A small black hole would swallow a whole planet, so having an average-size black hole spawn in a solar system would bring its end.

Another thing is that black holes don't expel matter, they just swallow it and propel whatever they can't swallow at speeds closing that of light; it is believed, however, that white holes exist, and that they connect to black holes somehow and serve as the escape route of all that matter. This, in fact, is what gave birth to the theory of wormholes.

Let a real physicist fill in the details and correct me where I am wrong.


Well for one, when a black hole is filled it just stops "eating" and it catches the remaining matter in its gravitational force. Said matter is then whirled around the black hole. Seeing that the enter of OUR galaxy is just a really big black hole that is dormant this seems like the most plausible idea. And that 2 hour special on the discovery channel was watched many times over by me.

You got me beat on white holes though, from what I read they are black holes but instead of "destroying" matter they send it to another place in space (kind of like worm holes)


Gravity is absolute (err, kind of), so there's no such thing as a black hole that "stops eating". Black holes live forever as long as the rate of emanated radiation is lower than the light and mass they are swallowing, which means that very small black holes live very short lives and viceversa.

The center of the Milky Way is not a dormant black hole, because such a thing is impossible in both theory and reality; it is, in fact, an ABSURDLY MASSIVE monster that is eating up stars at a rate you couldn't imagine. Did I say it is MASSIVE? Because that's a vulgar understatement.

We don't really know for sure what happens to matter when it is eaten by such phenomena (we kind of know, but there's no way to prove it yet); it could very well be transformed into energy (a couple of cities in Japan know what happens when you do this at a "pefect" ratio, they can attest to its non-prettyness), but then what happens to that energy? It's not like these objects irradiate (a lot of) stuff. These gaps in knowledge are what lead some scientists to believe it is somehow (there's math for this, but I both don't understand it fully and know people would just skip it) transported through spacetime somewhere else in our universe (or possibly other universes) and ejected from an object whose nature is opposite (not exactly, but let's assume that for the sake of simplicity) than that of black holes (hence the name).

There's another kind of black hole, but we shall leave the human anatomy conversation for later.


imagine the universe as a bed sheet on a very soft mattress. u put an object with a mass on the bed sheet and it creates a dimple in the bed sheet. u put a smaller (less massive) item somewhere within the dimple created by the first object and let it go. what does it do? it slides or roles towards the larger object as though it was 'gravitated' toward it.

skip over much chit chat about general gravity and orbits...

now take a tiny object but with the same mass of a thousand cars and put it on the same bed sheet and mattress. does it just create a dimple so steep that nothing can escape it and sucks everything to the very bottom? or does it tear through the bed sheet and 'reality' itself? who knows....P

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

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