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Dev blog: Must... Cleanup... Market... : Retribution Market Improvements

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-11-21 17:07:26 UTC
Arydanika wrote:
Rejoice OCD sufferers & neurotics in New Eden! Rejoice!

Fantastic work on re-categorizing the market as well as the icon updates. I once saw Foxfour bravely take on four nerds raging about random game mechanics with only his wit and a single beer. Not even that display of greatness could have properly prepared me for textual delights found in this blog. On a side note; Arrow is clearly working very hard to get himself out of the design dog house. Looks like you'll be the clear by the time Retribution is released. Congrats yo.


A single beer. Riiiiiiiight. :P CCP Arrow does fantastic work!

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Sarrian Calda
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-11-21 17:08:44 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sarrian Calda wrote:

However, the current order in Missile Launchers category is:
  1. Citadel Launchers
  2. Cruise Launchers
  3. Heavy Assault Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Light Missile Launchers
  6. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  7. Rocket Launchers
  8. Torpedo Launchers

From top to bottom, it goes from Capital--sized weapon, to Battleship, to Cruiser-sized, to Frigates, and the last one back to Battleship. A bit odd, no? If we are to follow the progression path of skills or ship-size, it should be sorted like this:

  1. Rocket Launchers
  2. Light Missile Launchers
  3. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Heavy Assault Launchers
  6. Cruise Missile Launchers
  7. Torpedo Launchers
  8. Citadel Launchers

Or in reverse order, if you think the heavy stuffs should go on top. But as a sub-cap player, I honestly hope that I can filter things that I don't even plan to use out of the way, like the other suggestion earlier in this thread. Anyway, it's a separate topic. Smile



Alphabetic order, vs 'strength' Except rockets aren't lighter than Light missile launchers. They're a different type of weapon. Ditto with cruises and Torps.



Yeah I know, just giving an example there. Smile Rocket would sound like a "simpler" weapon than Light guided missiles. P
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#43 - 2012-11-21 17:09:03 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
Faction drones and POS towers/modules are on the market on Buckingham.

Still only Exotic Dancers, Female on the market, no mention of their Male counterparts.

Some of the skill categories could use this treatment as well, like Subsystem (for each race), Spaceship Command (categories for each race, another for t2 hulls, which the skills are all race independent), Science (categories for the Engineering/Physics skills, the research skills, the skills for Sleeper/Tolcan/etc tech), Industry (refining + refining proficiency skills, Mining, Manufacturing), Gunnery (Projectile, Hybrid, Energy, Support).


Thank you for the heads up! It has been a while since I looked at the skills area of the market and you are indeed correct it could use some love. Shall see what I can do.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2012-11-21 17:10:38 UTC
Tek Handle wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to me to call it "Fleet Assistance Modules" instead of simply "Fleet Assistance", only because this category has modules in it, since all the other categories also contain only modules and are not named "Electronic Warfare Modules" for example. What do you think?


FINE! Make sense and all. :/ Shall look into it post Retribution. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#45 - 2012-11-21 17:11:17 UTC
With market cleanup one could have hoped for market bots too hehe Keep up the good work!

/c

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Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#46 - 2012-11-21 17:19:53 UTC
These changes are pretty foxy.
Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-11-21 17:31:10 UTC
I hardly ever browse the market by category like that anyway - I just use search. In fact, if there was an option for search results not to be categorised at all, but just presented in a flat list that I didn't have to subsequently expand to get to what I wanted even after searching, I'd go for that.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#48 - 2012-11-21 17:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Faulx
I find that I use the "Show Info" window's "Variations" tab a lot when pricing meta variants of items, If you could take some time to arrange each item's variant modules by their meta level inside the show info window it would save a lot of guess work...

For example the show info window for Nanofiber Internal Structures looks like this:

*Tech I
Beta Hull Mod Nanofiber Structure (meta 3)
Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I (meta 4)
Mark I Modified SS Nanofiber Structure (meta 1)
Nanofiber Internal Structure I (meta 0)
Type-D Altered SS Nanofiber Structure (meta 2)
*Tech II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II (meta 5)
*Storyline
Synthetic Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I (meta 6)
*Faction
Domination Nanofiber Structure (meta 8)
Republic Fleet Nanofiber Structure (meta 8)

...but it should look like this:
*Tech I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I (meta 0)
Mark I Modified SS Nanofiber Structure (meta 1)
Type-D Altered SS Nanofiber Structure (meta 2)
Beta Hull Mod Nanofiber Structure (meta 3)
Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I (meta 4)
*Tech II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II (meta 5)
*Storyline
Synthetic Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I (meta 6)
*Faction
Domination Nanofiber Structure (meta 8)
Republic Fleet Nanofiber Structure (meta 8)

Actually listing the meta number in the tab (like I have done) might also be good.

One other thing which would be amazing (esp for meta items) would be if you added a tab in the show info window which showed the (perfect) reprocessing breakdown (and the summed market value of the minerals/components, using the minerals' "global projected value" that you get when mousing over an item) for each item. That way you would know whether it would be better to simply reprocess the item or if it has innate value on its own. Otherwise, when selling lots of piddly things, transferring all that info into your own spreadsheet is too much overhead and things tend to either get reprocessed which don't deserve it or get sold to a market order belonging to someone who doesn't mind the overhead for less (sometimes way less) than they're worth.
Gizan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-11-21 18:29:13 UTC
CCP ever gonna re-introduce FACTION POS MODULE/TOWER drops?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#50 - 2012-11-21 18:41:57 UTC
Quote:
Nothing ground breaking here, just a lot of cleanup and making better.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#51 - 2012-11-21 18:50:03 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
Faction drones[...]are on the market on Buckingham.

Yay, now maybe we can sell some of these pieces of junk.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#52 - 2012-11-21 19:43:44 UTC
while your at it can we have option to remove all things that are not profitable to manufacture from blueprint.. example i could feed me level... Cool Would clean up market quite a bit for us manufacturers...Blink

or option to show as items where price spread is our selected % or higher Blink

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#53 - 2012-11-21 20:07:02 UTC
Faulx wrote:

Actually listing the meta number in the tab (like I have done) might also be good.

One other thing which would be amazing (esp for meta items) would be if you added a tab in the show info window which showed the (perfect) reprocessing breakdown (and the summed market value of the minerals/components, using the minerals' "global projected value" that you get when mousing over an item) for each item. That way you would know whether it would be better to simply reprocess the item or if it has innate value on its own. Otherwise, when selling lots of piddly things, transferring all that info into your own spreadsheet is too much overhead and things tend to either get reprocessed which don't deserve it or get sold to a market order belonging to someone who doesn't mind the overhead for less (sometimes way less) than they're worth.


1.) I like the idea of arranging items by meta level (rather than alphabetically). This way t2 items are always in the same position, meta 4 items are always in the same position, etc....

2.) I personally don't think you should add the reprocessing value of a module to the market.... I think a player should have to work to "optimize" their profits when buying and selling.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2012-11-21 20:09:45 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Faulx wrote:

Actually listing the meta number in the tab (like I have done) might also be good.

One other thing which would be amazing (esp for meta items) would be if you added a tab in the show info window which showed the (perfect) reprocessing breakdown (and the summed market value of the minerals/components, using the minerals' "global projected value" that you get when mousing over an item) for each item. That way you would know whether it would be better to simply reprocess the item or if it has innate value on its own. Otherwise, when selling lots of piddly things, transferring all that info into your own spreadsheet is too much overhead and things tend to either get reprocessed which don't deserve it or get sold to a market order belonging to someone who doesn't mind the overhead for less (sometimes way less) than they're worth.


1.) I like the idea of arranging items by meta level (rather than alphabetically). This way t2 items are always in the same position, meta 4 items are always in the same position, etc....

2.) I personally don't think you should add the reprocessing value of a module to the market.... I think a player should have to work to "optimize" their profits when buying and selling.


One of the behind the scenes things I am doing is making sure everything has a proper meta level. There are certain items that don't and it just breaks things when you try to do that.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
David Magnus
#55 - 2012-11-21 21:37:05 UTC
Great, well thought-out changes.
Thanks!

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http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

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Rastlor
Torpedo Industries
#56 - 2012-11-21 22:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rastlor
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Fade Toblack wrote:
@ CCP FoxFour - how about moving some of the low-value, drops-a-lot in missions stuff to the market? "Elite Drone AI" is my most obvious item. Selling some of this stuff on contract compared to the market is painful.

I'd suggest getting somebody to run some data on stuff that's sold on contract either for low-values or in large quantities, and prioritising that list.

Salpad wrote:
I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there.


Have you seen the "orders" tab on the Market Window?


This is a good idea. If my other plan fails I shall look into that. I am trying to find the best way to find things not listed on the market. Easier said than done apparently.



Can you not do this at the database level on one of your internal builds? Seed everything on market in a station (think you do this on the test servers anyways) and then do a not exists query from your item db to find everything not on the market?

A clean market is a good market - good work btw
Maverick Ice
Covetous Tears
#57 - 2012-11-21 22:50:24 UTC
We need more of these types of changes...ones that make the game easier to use. +5000000 likes.
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
Diplomatic Incidents.
#58 - 2012-11-22 01:03:44 UTC
CCP FoxFour, Thank you Thank you Thank you!
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#59 - 2012-11-22 02:06:12 UTC
Nothing ground breaking maybe, but it's good. Smile
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Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
#60 - 2012-11-22 03:33:25 UTC
Nice improvement. Big smile