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Dev blog: Must... Cleanup... Market... : Retribution Market Improvements

First post First post
Author
Alara IonStorm
#21 - 2012-11-21 15:42:14 UTC
The added plates and hardeners thank god. \o/
Fade Toblack
Per.ly
The 20 Minuters
#22 - 2012-11-21 15:46:36 UTC
@ CCP FoxFour - how about moving some of the low-value, drops-a-lot in missions stuff to the market? "Elite Drone AI" is my most obvious item. Selling some of this stuff on contract compared to the market is painful.

I'd suggest getting somebody to run some data on stuff that's sold on contract either for low-values or in large quantities, and prioritising that list.

Salpad wrote:
I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there.


Have you seen the "orders" tab on the Market Window?
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#23 - 2012-11-21 15:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
Salpad wrote:
A feature request: I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there. I can already modify the Orders I've created from the Market window, so why can't I also cancel them?

(Note also that it's possible to cancel any order - from the Wallet window - even if you're half a galaxy away. There's no same-Region requirement. Is that working as intended?)


This is discussed here too; Forum Link, and I suggest a GO TO ORDER button in the orders menu on blue orders which bring you to your order overview, so you can cancel it in the order overview immidiately.

And regarding the orders maintenance from all over. That I want to keep around ;).

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#24 - 2012-11-21 15:52:56 UTC
Looks good, can't wait till the 4th

wumbo

Arydanika
Angelitos Negros
#25 - 2012-11-21 15:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arydanika
Rejoice OCD sufferers & neurotics in New Eden! Rejoice!

Fantastic work on re-categorizing the market as well as the icon updates. I once saw Foxfour bravely take on four nerds raging about random game mechanics with only his wit and a single beer. Not even that display of greatness could have properly prepared me for textual delights found in this blog. On a side note; Arrow is clearly working very hard to get himself out of the design dog house. Looks like you'll be the clear by the time Retribution is released. Congrats yo.

Runner of Voices from the Void podcast, Eve Online Pod Pack & DJ on eve-radio.com Sundays at 1800.  Organizer of the ATX Eve Online Meet. ♥

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#26 - 2012-11-21 16:07:29 UTC
Nice stuff. Thank you.

How about applying the same organization love to the LP store?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#27 - 2012-11-21 16:18:47 UTC
Faction drones and POS towers/modules are on the market on Buckingham.

Still only Exotic Dancers, Female on the market, no mention of their Male counterparts.

Some of the skill categories could use this treatment as well, like Subsystem (for each race), Spaceship Command (categories for each race, another for t2 hulls, which the skills are all race independent), Science (categories for the Engineering/Physics skills, the research skills, the skills for Sleeper/Tolcan/etc tech), Industry (refining + refining proficiency skills, Mining, Manufacturing), Gunnery (Projectile, Hybrid, Energy, Support).
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#28 - 2012-11-21 16:22:35 UTC
Oh my god, thank you.

I've been hoping for a revised market nesting order (think EFT) for nearly all my 7 years of playing this game.
Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2012-11-21 16:27:35 UTC

It doesn't make much sense to me to call it "Fleet Assistance Modules" instead of simply "Fleet Assistance", only because this category has modules in it, since all the other categories also contain only modules and are not named "Electronic Warfare Modules" for example. What do you think?
John DaiSho
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-11-21 16:32:28 UTC
Salpad wrote:
A feature request: I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there. I can already modify the Orders I've created from the Market window, so why can't I also cancel them?


This has been posted several times in the "Soundwave, HALP!" little things thread, too. Its something that would be VERY handy. So pleeeeeaaaaaase do it :)

o7 John
Callic Veratar
#31 - 2012-11-21 16:46:17 UTC
The only places I can think that would work for the new Subsystems icons would be under the Ship subsections and possibly as a method to further sub-divide the faction sections (ie all Republic Fleet Ammo).
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#32 - 2012-11-21 16:50:12 UTC
John DaiSho wrote:
Salpad wrote:
A feature request: I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there. I can already modify the Orders I've created from the Market window, so why can't I also cancel them?


This has been posted several times in the "Soundwave, HALP!" little things thread, too. Its something that would be VERY handy. So pleeeeeaaaaaase do it :)

o7 John


I've thought about posting it in the Little Things thread, on several occasions, but I've made a lot of other posts in that thread, and I'm not sure how much attention CCP pays to new threads. So I opted for here instead.
Desmont McCallock
#33 - 2012-11-21 16:51:39 UTC
I have 3 words for you.

"Was" "About" "Time"
Sarrian Calda
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-11-21 17:01:43 UTC
Nice touch! How about a re-arrangement of the order of the way the items are listed in the market?

Currently, the items aren't seemed to be following any particular order when listed in the market tree.

I'm a missile user, so allow me to use missile launchers as example. P

To me, it seemed to be logical that the "light" stuffs should be at the top, since that would be what everyone begins the game with. Then as a player progresses through the game and learns the rope of "heavier" stuffs, then he/she will scroll further down to find the big guns.

However, the current order in Missile Launchers category is:
  1. Citadel Launchers
  2. Cruise Launchers
  3. Heavy Assault Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Light Missile Launchers
  6. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  7. Rocket Launchers
  8. Torpedo Launchers

From top to bottom, it goes from Capital--sized weapon, to Battleship, to Cruiser-sized, to Frigates, and the last one back to Battleship. A bit odd, no? If we are to follow the progression path of skills or ship-size, it should be sorted like this:

  1. Rocket Launchers
  2. Light Missile Launchers
  3. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Heavy Assault Launchers
  6. Cruise Missile Launchers
  7. Torpedo Launchers
  8. Citadel Launchers

Or in reverse order, if you think the heavy stuffs should go on top. But as a sub-cap player, I honestly hope that I can filter things that I don't even plan to use out of the way, like the other suggestion earlier in this thread. Anyway, it's a separate topic. Smile

Next, the order of the items within the sub-categories.
Let's look at the Cruise Missile Launchers.
Right now, I see them listed as:
  1. Cruise Missile Launcher I
  2. 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
  3. 'Limos' Cruise Launcher I
  4. 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I
  5. XT-9000 Cruise Launcher I
  6. Cruise Missile Launcher II

Again, I don't see what is the exact logic used here in the sorting system. Probably along the line of Tech 1 > Ascending Alphabetical order > Tech 2.

However, in practicality, the efficiency of the launchers mattered more than the name of the modules, since the naming convention doesn't follow alphabetical or numerical order to show its ascending power. As such, when I was still new to New Eden, I constantly had to force myself to memorize the names of the best Tech 1 item by manually going through each item to see its stats and compare, and that still continues whenever I venture into a group of modules that I rarely use.

In my opinion, if the items are sorted in terms of its efficiency, something that the Meta Level seems to represent, we can cut down the time a new (or forgetful pilot) spends on running through half the list only to find out that actually the first module after the base Tech 1 module is the best named T1 module. Some game/server performance saver there, perhaps? Less click too? Less market order requests to server if the pilot selected each item instead of clicking the information icon straight?

So, in terms of efficiency and functionality, the Cruise Launchers should be listed this way, in ascending order:
  1. Cruise Missile Launcher I
  2. 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I
  3. 'Limos' Cruise Launcher I
  4. XT-9000 Cruise Launcher I
  5. 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
  6. Cruise Missile Launcher II

For some modules that I've previously compared, the Meta Level seems to correlate to the efficiency of the module as a whole. So in a sense, the higher Meta Level an item is, the more desirable it is. T2 requires more skill to operate than T1, but since their Meta Level is higher than the best named T1 module anyway, it fits into this sorting logic naturally.

This way, a player instinctively knows which tier of module he is looking for, without even knowing the name of the module beforehand. So, for a non-gun player like me, if one day I decide to go Hybrid, I can go into the market and pick the module above the T2 variant straight away without the need to verify whether is it the "best" named T1 module.

That said, I think the turrets could use some love to re-organize them into different sub-categories as well, since, for example, the Large Railguns have only 3 sizes: 350mm, 425mm and Dual 250mm. They are meant for different purposes as well, right? Larger calibers for long range, smaller calibers for shorter range. This would in practical sense have "categorized" themselves already, so why not put them into actual categories for easy sorting?

And, I think it should go from Short Range > Medium Range > Long Range to be aligned with the ascending sort order with the rest.

ThoughtsQuestion
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2012-11-21 17:02:00 UTC
Grideris wrote:
Separate categories for different sized plates/different resistances? Has Christmas come early?!


Hahahah Christmas. Funny guy.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2012-11-21 17:03:27 UTC
Valkyrs wrote:
Maybe consider putting ALL the items on the market, and for the ones that aren't allowed (essentially the ones you haven't added yet) put a little blurb "Item not available from market, click HERE to view in contracts" which then, obviously, opens the contract window with the given search.


Honestly if I find something that is not on the market I just add it. It takes me less effort to add it than it would to create any kind of link. I just need to hunt down all the things not there.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2012-11-21 17:04:02 UTC
Xearal wrote:
- Targetting annoying Market behaviour
- Target Locked
- CCP , FOXFOUR!
- Annoying Marketting behaviour is hit for over 9000 anti-papercut damage!
- Annoying Marketting behaviour has been destroyed.


Whooohoo !!!
Score another victory against the papercuts!


\o/ YAY! Death to little things!

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#38 - 2012-11-21 17:04:08 UTC
Sarrian Calda wrote:

However, the current order in Missile Launchers category is:
  1. Citadel Launchers
  2. Cruise Launchers
  3. Heavy Assault Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Light Missile Launchers
  6. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  7. Rocket Launchers
  8. Torpedo Launchers

From top to bottom, it goes from Capital--sized weapon, to Battleship, to Cruiser-sized, to Frigates, and the last one back to Battleship. A bit odd, no? If we are to follow the progression path of skills or ship-size, it should be sorted like this:

  1. Rocket Launchers
  2. Light Missile Launchers
  3. Rapid Light Missile Launchers
  4. Heavy Launchers
  5. Heavy Assault Launchers
  6. Cruise Missile Launchers
  7. Torpedo Launchers
  8. Citadel Launchers

Or in reverse order, if you think the heavy stuffs should go on top. But as a sub-cap player, I honestly hope that I can filter things that I don't even plan to use out of the way, like the other suggestion earlier in this thread. Anyway, it's a separate topic. Smile



Alphabetic order, vs 'strength' Except rockets aren't lighter than Light missile launchers. They're a different type of weapon. Ditto with cruises and Torps.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2012-11-21 17:04:55 UTC
Crynsos Cealion wrote:
Now it would be great if we actually could sell exploration loot like faction POS towers / modules and the various faction drones on the market as well.


All of those things are on the market as of Retribution...

See what I did there? I did awesome!

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2012-11-21 17:06:26 UTC
Fade Toblack wrote:
@ CCP FoxFour - how about moving some of the low-value, drops-a-lot in missions stuff to the market? "Elite Drone AI" is my most obvious item. Selling some of this stuff on contract compared to the market is painful.

I'd suggest getting somebody to run some data on stuff that's sold on contract either for low-values or in large quantities, and prioritising that list.

Salpad wrote:
I'd like to be able to cancel my Buy Orders and Sell Orders from the Market window, instead of having to go the my Wallet and re-finding the order there.


Have you seen the "orders" tab on the Market Window?


This is a good idea. If my other plan fails I shall look into that. I am trying to find the best way to find things not listed on the market. Easier said than done apparently.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.