These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

act of war...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#1 - 2012-11-19 14:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
when i was in the navy, actively locking another war ship could have been construed as an act of war. i accidentally/unintensionally did it once when i was standing radar watch in 96 to a friendly ship and i thought all hell was going to break out on my ship...needless to say, no one got their feathers in a ruffle other than us.

now, locking someone in EVE isnt a bad thing, but we should make actively scanning them an act of aggression. it doesnt matter if u use a cargo or ship scanner, the moment you intrude into their ship, you should become a criminal and be engaged by anyone around.

we wont block scanning and high sec ganking, but we will make it have stiff consequences...
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-11-19 14:40:57 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
it doesnt matter if u use a cargo or ship scanner, the moment you intrude into their ship, you should become a criminal and be engaged by concord or anyone around.

we wont block scanning and high sec ganking, but we will make it have stiff consequences...


How does having CONCORD WTFBBQPWN people for using a cargo scanner NOT stop high sec scanning? Your argument seems to be a little self-contradicting.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2012-11-19 15:39:23 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
it doesnt matter if u use a cargo or ship scanner, the moment you intrude into their ship, you should become a criminal and be engaged by concord or anyone around.

we wont block scanning and high sec ganking, but we will make it have stiff consequences...


How does having CONCORD WTFBBQPWN people for using a cargo scanner NOT stop high sec scanning? Your argument seems to be a little self-contradicting.

It should give you the same rights as if they opened fire on you, with the exception of no Concord intervening.

This right should extend by proxy to all fleet members, as obviously cargo oriented boats are little combat deterrent on their own.

Example: Ship ScanHappy scans a ship nearing a gate, JoyfulHauler.
JoyfulHauler now has kill rights on ScanHappy. JoyfulHauler is an industrial, but is in fleet with 3 frigates and two cruisers, who now share kill rights on ScanHappy.

Things go boom.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-11-19 16:44:00 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
it doesnt matter if u use a cargo or ship scanner, the moment you intrude into their ship, you should become a criminal and be engaged by concord or anyone around.

we wont block scanning and high sec ganking, but we will make it have stiff consequences...


How does having CONCORD WTFBBQPWN people for using a cargo scanner NOT stop high sec scanning? Your argument seems to be a little self-contradicting.
[

Example: Ship ScanHappy scans a ship nearing a gate, JoyfulHauler.
JoyfulHauler now has kill rights on ScanHappy. JoyfulHauler is an industrial, but is in fleet with 3 frigates and two cruisers, who now share kill rights on ScanHappy.

Things go boom.


This I like, but that's not what the OP suggested. He included CONCORD intervention specifically.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#5 - 2012-11-19 16:53:29 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
it doesnt matter if u use a cargo or ship scanner, the moment you intrude into their ship, you should become a criminal and be engaged by concord or anyone around.

we wont block scanning and high sec ganking, but we will make it have stiff consequences...


How does having CONCORD WTFBBQPWN people for using a cargo scanner NOT stop high sec scanning? Your argument seems to be a little self-contradicting.
[

Example: Ship ScanHappy scans a ship nearing a gate, JoyfulHauler.
JoyfulHauler now has kill rights on ScanHappy. JoyfulHauler is an industrial, but is in fleet with 3 frigates and two cruisers, who now share kill rights on ScanHappy.

Things go boom.


This I like, but that's not what the OP suggested. He included CONCORD intervention specifically.


Agree. +1 to treat it like theft (theft of information?). No concordoken but killrights are a go.
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
#6 - 2012-11-19 17:52:29 UTC
i think a kill right is a little harsh for just using a scanner, a personal or corp aggression timer should be enough.
but im not sure how this blends into the new aggression-system.

with giving a kill right for scanning everybody and his mother would only use alts anyway as tech2 scanners only need electronics II.

while we are at it .. how about a counter scanning system? personal counter-scanner and remote-counter-scanner.
Shokre O'Corwi
The Squid Squad
#7 - 2012-11-19 17:53:54 UTC
Also in favor of Nikk Narrel's idea.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#8 - 2012-11-19 18:01:12 UTC
slow down, concord was merely a suggestion.
i was in a hurry and just threw it out.

in texas, the rights of your home extend to your vehicle. so if someone intrudes into you home (by extension you truck), you have the right to shoot them.

if you scan my ship, you must be looking to steal something...therefore, i shoot u.

but yeah, you're right...they will use disposable alts with disposable ships.

im not trying to stop it from happening, just slow it down a bit. make it more risky...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-11-19 23:14:58 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
slow down, concord was merely a suggestion.
i was in a hurry and just threw it out.

in texas, the rights of your home extend to your vehicle. so if someone intrudes into you home (by extension you truck), you have the right to shoot them.

if you scan my ship, you must be looking to steal something...therefore, i shoot u.

but yeah, you're right...they will use disposable alts with disposable ships.

im not trying to stop it from happening, just slow it down a bit. make it more risky...



If someone looks through the window of your car as you drive past them, would you shoot them? That's basically what scanning is...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2012-11-19 23:21:31 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
slow down, concord was merely a suggestion.
i was in a hurry and just threw it out.

in texas, the rights of your home extend to your vehicle. so if someone intrudes into you home (by extension you truck), you have the right to shoot them.

if you scan my ship, you must be looking to steal something...therefore, i shoot u.

but yeah, you're right...they will use disposable alts with disposable ships.

im not trying to stop it from happening, just slow it down a bit. make it more risky...



If someone looks through the window of your car as you drive past them, would you shoot them? That's basically what scanning is...

Seriously?

So how come they get to see what's in my trunk too?

If we want to follow that train of thought, lets make it toggled as to whether they can scan indies and freighters :)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#11 - 2012-11-20 13:39:16 UTC
if they rummaged through my truck and copped a feel across my person, maybe downloaded my dental records or medical history off my computer...i probably would shoot em.
you have no business in my trunk. thats MY truck.

even if they used a 2 day old alt, i would pod his azz back to station....even for just scanning me.

i would even run empty haulers through JUST in hopes someone would scan me for some easy kill board points.
i would bring hot dogs and beer and run gates with my inty and hauler and pop ships. hell i might even sell tickets...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-11-20 13:47:30 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
if they rummaged through my truck and copped a feel across my person, maybe downloaded my dental records or medical history off my computer...i probably would shoot em.
you have no business in my trunk. thats MY truck.

even if they used a 2 day old alt, i would pod his azz back to station....even for just scanning me.

i would even run empty haulers through JUST in hopes someone would scan me for some easy kill board points.
i would bring hot dogs and beer and run gates with my inty and hauler and pop ships. hell i might even sell tickets...



If you're that desperate to kill people, maybe you should get out of highsec?
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#13 - 2012-11-20 14:23:01 UTC
With the upcoming Crimewatch anyone using a Cargo/Ship Scanner should get a Suspect flag.
Still possible to scan a ship and then just warp away without getting shot.
NO gate/station sentries firing upon you .

My Condor costs less than that module!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2012-11-20 14:49:56 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
if they rummaged through my truck and copped a feel across my person, maybe downloaded my dental records or medical history off my computer...i probably would shoot em.
you have no business in my trunk. thats MY truck.

even if they used a 2 day old alt, i would pod his azz back to station....even for just scanning me.

i would even run empty haulers through JUST in hopes someone would scan me for some easy kill board points.
i would bring hot dogs and beer and run gates with my inty and hauler and pop ships. hell i might even sell tickets...



If you're that desperate to kill people, maybe you should get out of highsec?

No...nono...wait just a minute.

Lets ponder this a moment, and consider it's secondary effects.

Scanning ships would pretty much know they were doing something that would get them shot at, so they would be more clever with the tactic.
Indy ships would be acting as bait more often, intending to coax scanners into tagging them.

Anything that brings PvP explosions to high sec, and doesn't upset PvE pilots, has to be good.
(PvP pilots complaining about PvP would be the funny part, if they did)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-20 14:53:42 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
slow down, concord was merely a suggestion.
i was in a hurry and just threw it out.

in texas, the rights of your home extend to your vehicle. so if someone intrudes into you home (by extension you truck), you have the right to shoot them.

if you scan my ship, you must be looking to steal something...therefore, i shoot u.

but yeah, you're right...they will use disposable alts with disposable ships.

im not trying to stop it from happening, just slow it down a bit. make it more risky...



If someone looks through the window of your car as you drive past them, would you shoot them? That's basically what scanning is...


Actually scanning is more like forcing open the back door of a delivery truck so you can rummage through all the boxes and see if anything is worth stealing. At least in practice.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-20 15:12:47 UTC
I like the 'treat as theft' principal. However, would this mechanic also apply to looking in cans and wrecks in space? Or would they be an exception to the rule?

Friends
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#17 - 2012-11-20 16:19:33 UTC
personally, i think it should apply to cans as well. if it isnt your can, you shouldnt open it even for a peek.
if u do, you consent to pvp.

@Danika Princip, i lived in null sec from 03-10 even attempting to pvp from iraq (didnt work very well with the lag tho). right now, i live in low sec or worm holes. the only time i go to high sec is for parts or to shoot gate campers scanning for an easy gank (if this passes and is accepted...) so dont come at me like *I* am the nooblet. i grew up in FIX pvping daily or more.
you can ask some of the old -A- guys about some of our epic battles. or the hundreds of older alliances/corps who we are. now, i dont play so much as we are down to only 1 tv in the house and its my monitor.

you must be like 13 or so or a liberal to throw around insults as you do. if cant beat us, youd rather throw a pie in our faces and say we are baby rapers or something? really? get a life.

constructive criticism is always welcome (note, i took out the concord part because it was constructive criticism...)
mud slinging makes me yawn...
you bore me.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#18 - 2012-11-20 16:30:13 UTC
how does this work with enforcers scanning for contraband?

trying to behave like customs agents will get u shot by everyone and their dog...somewhat deserved but probably not desired

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2012-11-20 16:35:42 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
personally, i think it should apply to cans as well. if it isnt your can, you shouldnt open it even for a peek.
if u do, you consent to pvp.

@Danika Princip, i lived in null sec from 03-10 even attempting to pvp from iraq (didnt work very well with the lag tho). right now, i live in low sec or worm holes. the only time i go to high sec is for parts or to shoot gate campers scanning for an easy gank (if this passes and is accepted...) so dont come at me like *I* am the nooblet. i grew up in FIX pvping daily or more.
you can ask some of the old -A- guys about some of our epic battles. or the hundreds of older alliances/corps who we are. now, i dont play so much as we are down to only 1 tv in the house and its my monitor.

you must be like 13 or so or a liberal to throw around insults as you do. if cant beat us, youd rather throw a pie in our faces and say we are baby rapers or something? really? get a life.

constructive criticism is always welcome (note, i took out the concord part because it was constructive criticism...)
mud slinging makes me yawn...
you bore me.

Ahh, a fellow soldier. Respectfully I ask your patience on behalf of those who speak in ignorance.

Peace everyone. Let's not make any assumptions about each other if possible.
I deal with enough of that in real life, and it usually never works out well.

It's so easy to look at kill boards, or other online references, and assume you know someone's experiences.

Stick to facts. You are entitled to opinions, and I for one welcome hearing them.
Try not to assume more than is stated though.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#20 - 2012-11-20 16:58:16 UTC
im good with that. =)

peace!

i, for one, am not a statistician. i dont care about kb's and whatnot. im not trying to reign supreme in a pvp group etc. for those who do, i used to be like you before i got bored with it. im only into it when we are teaching young ones now or someone invades my wh etc.

i dont know how it would work with customs scanning. do we do that? is it a function of FW? ive wanted to get into FW but havent yet. i dont have an answer for that question. someone smarter than i would have to give input on that aspect..=)

nikk. thanx for your service. for whatever branch in what ever country..
i was 10 years in the navy, then went to iraq to do electronic warfare/jam IED's and protect the soldiers there. CREW weapons stuff.

i retract what i said earlier and appologize for the attack. i just dont like mud slinging is all. i welcome danika's opinions.
12Next page